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layering to get a good basssound
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Conny
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
224
Posts :
149
Posted : Oct 8, 2005 17:48
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Hi !
Would be nice to discuss how to make good basssound trough layering.
Nowadays i´ve learned that when you make music each sound has to sound good from the beginning.
I use to have several basses to make a basssound.With one synth i never get the sound i want.I trie to listen to my own electric bass and simulate the sound with synth´s though it´s hard.
.I try to here what´s in the electric basssound and make it with synth´s.The electric bass has a pluck sound in the beginning which is brighter and afterwards the "body" which is the more bassy sound,It also has the high end in the sound the "overtones" which i try to emulate with for example a violin sound.
Would be really nice to talk about which synth´s samples to use to make a great basssound which you can use in your songs.
I find that my bassounds often get muddy with no real strong definition of the pluck in the bassound and so on.
Regards Conny |
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industed
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
54
Posted : Oct 9, 2005 13:14
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conny try use the search or read the mother of all baselines thead.
 Switch Off Power Schemes... |
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assaf_zo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
141
Posted : Oct 10, 2005 03:29
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try to use tritium or tau pro
nothing more then this two |
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jhanna
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
178
Posted : Oct 10, 2005 04:37
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tau pro is no good every bassline sounds the same
auduirealism bassline, vanguard even v-station and albino are way better and u can get more original basslines with that. if u wanna typical fullon bassline go with the tau |
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ucc
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
316
Posted : Oct 10, 2005 04:56
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the poetic explanation for the mudy bass
the bass needs air to to breathe and space to live
if you're on to replicate an electric bass sound, there is software for that, or you try to look for plucked synths... String Theory here, for example
http://www.cortidesign.com/ugo/
than, imHo, i can't see any advantge on layering sounds to get a good bass sound, but that's because i never enphasise the bass sound working a track
if you don't mind, let me imagine... to simulate 1 string you'd need than, <in caps>at least<in caps>, 2 oscilators, 1 for the "attack" of the chord, where there's no attack, we could use a triangle waveform for example with no attack at all and very short decay, and while the decay of first osc a small attack for the 2nd osc on pulse wave for the bass note, maybe add to it a tiny modulation to its pw to give the idea of a natural variation... if happy, add more pulse oscs on fixed frequency with some modulation too to give the idea of the rest of the strings, sympathetically ressonating!
just speculating |
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gothica
Gothica
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
239
Posted : Oct 13, 2005 04:51
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try 2 use Scorpion and Junglist.. these r very interesting i think..  |
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gothica
Gothica
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
239
Posted : Oct 13, 2005 05:19
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Quote:
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On 2005-10-10 04:56, uccpd wrote:
the poetic explanation for the mudy bass
the bass needs air to to breathe and space to live
if you're on to replicate an electric bass sound, there is software for that, or you try to look for plucked synths... String Theory here, for example
http://www.cortidesign.com/ugo/
than, imHo, i can't see any advantge on layering sounds to get a good bass sound, but that's because i never enphasise the bass sound working a track
if you don't mind, let me imagine... to simulate 1 string you'd need than, <in caps>at least<in caps>, 2 oscilators, 1 for the "attack" of the chord, where there's no attack, we could use a triangle waveform for example with no attack at all and very short decay, and while the decay of first osc a small attack for the 2nd osc on pulse wave for the bass note, maybe add to it a tiny modulation to its pw to give the idea of a natural variation... if happy, add more pulse oscs on fixed frequency with some modulation too to give the idea of the rest of the strings, sympathetically ressonating!
just speculating
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hey man! very good link!! i liked it very much! |
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ucc
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
316
Posted : Oct 13, 2005 05:27
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for those who don't really know these tools give a try to Motion, check its bank... very unusual synth, an extraterrestrial living being! |
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Conny
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
224
Posts :
149
Posted : Oct 21, 2005 13:50
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Thanx guys i will check this info you gave me.
String theory  was helpful.
I heard that many people use a sinewave one octave underneath the basssound.Does it work ?
I find that you get a very nice one layering the sine on the same octave !
Regards Conny
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : Oct 21, 2005 14:00
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It's a tradeoff, using two different modules for bass. On the one hand you get two entirely different colors and types of sound (different types of synthesis, ROMpler, etc) on the other hand, trying to put two instruments roughly in the same range at the same time can cause phase problems and muddiness. When you create a bass entirely with a single synth, you get multiple oscillators which are capable of phase syncing and the same phase initialization. If you try to use two different modules in different octaves, then the hard part becomes choosing a good EQ which does not produce artifacts or cause phase problems of its own.
Layering DOES work, and it can be done well with different modules, but it's so much easier to start with decent modules in the first place, like Vanguard, and then process them well. A two layer bass coming out of a single good module is going to sound better out of the box than even hours of trying to munge up modules with crappy filters.
Also the addition of a sine can sometimes be overkill, especially in fast songs.
A sine wave is the fundamental wave underpinning all other waves anyway:
http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/Graphics/Law_of_Superposition.gif
So if you think about it, putting a sine under a bassline is most often going to result in either too much first octave bass, or not enough, depending on whether your other wave is a unison or an octave higher. Since a sine has no partials/harmonics, it's gonna leave a nice big hole in your bassline. You're better off putting your more colorful wave (saw/pulse/square) in the lower octave and then playing with eqs and overdrives to change around the spectral balance and bring out the fundamental (sine) if it is too weak. It's a more subtle way to emphasize the meat of the bassline than straight up duplicating the fundamental. And of course you're gonna have to use less EQ when you're using synths that faithfully produce actual child waves like pulse and saw well from the BEGINNING, as with something like Vanguard, Virus, Moog, or a lot of old analogs...in comparison to thin stuff like V-Station and Albino plugins which IMO is kinda worthless for bass.
In the case of kicks you can get away with pinning an enveloped/shaped sine more easily because kicks are more static and the note is [almost always] the same.
Anyway thats my 02c, feel free to transplant this bullshit to the MOAB thread. |
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Oct 21, 2005 14:31
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And of course you're gonna have to use less EQ when you're using synths that faithfully produce actual child waves like pulse and saw well from the BEGINNING, as with something like Vanguard, Virus, Moog, or a lot of old analogs...in comparison to thin stuff like V-Station and Albino plugins which IMO is kinda worthless for bass.
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i cant agree with you about v-station and albino sounding thin i found them pretty cappable of producing great bass iff tweaked properly and specialy in comparision to vanguard i found it too limited in tweakabillity(not in sound)
as for layering bass i dont find it the best way to produce a good bassline first it would take much time to eq it to fit and second phasing issues is the greatest enemy for a subtle bass.in the other hand i find using 2 osc in v-station for bass a great way to make it fat and punchy and phasing isnt a problem cos they are synced!
my opinion is that fm synths (fm7-toxic2-sytrus etc)can produce some huge and well sounding basslines that sit very nice in the mix without loosing power and deffinition and with the fm synthesis tweaking cappabilities being great to make the waveform of the bass sounding crystal clear through an overcrowded mix without needing lots of eq or squashing to death from a commpressor!
orange
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
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S.D6 (Yakir .B.)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
66
Posts :
575
Posted : Oct 21, 2005 14:39
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there is a huge topic in front of your eye's wich call'd: "The Mother of all bassline's thread"
use the deam search!!!!!!!!!
================
S.D6 & Iron Madness- Dinak Production - Acidance Rec.
S.D6 Vs. Iron Madness- Blues Mystery - Doof Rec. & Yellow Sunshine Explosions rec.
Deepsky and Marc .M.- Lost In the moment (Deep Six remix) - Iboga rec. (Soon) |
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TRapp
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
271
Posted : Oct 21, 2005 17:10
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layering basses is a plan...just make sure you dont have any phase cancellation etc...
I dont do the drugs....I AM the drugs |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : Mar 27, 2006 06:57
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On 2005-10-10 04:37, jhanna wrote:
tau pro is no good every bassline sounds the same
auduirealism bassline, vanguard even v-station and albino are way better and u can get more original basslines with that. if u wanna typical fullon bassline go with the tau
Hahaha .. :-) (And i can keep and laugh until
tomorrow ..) 'tau pro is no good every bassline sounds the same' Well .. That is
realy intresting Im using tau pro many times and each track is defferent so dont tell me this nonsense , You got there many options and possibility buttons to creat the right bass you realy want . Also the right kikbass will always change the story to an different and a special and particular sound in each track and track . Pls tel me what is a
'Orginal bassline' ? Haha .. :-) There is ? I think before reading it that they are all orginals and we are decide what is fit for our ears .
'if u wanna typical fullon bassline go with the tau' Man .. Here you realy kill me (Again ..) Man .. Im on the floor right now .. Haha .. Are u sure ? , I can tell you a littel secret .. 90% from the dark artist are using tau/Tau pro , Vanguard and some other mor .. You cant say here that this 1 its for this and this for other , Its always
a matter of hearing .
As gothica said .. Scorpion can be nice to . G. luck
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