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Labels and Promotion.
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 05:36
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^
I wonder where you saw any word twisting... 
But be it as you wish, Tina. 
P.S. It still would be interesting to hear from DH or Ekoplex on this topic. |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 05:51
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Tina? Get off the LSD dude.
I am amazed the misdo still have you around here. I've never experienced a bigger prick than you.
Now ban me mods  www.beatagency.dk |
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scobbah
Kiriyama
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
991
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 13:08
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Some people have mentioned that there's no place for the label given today's market conditions and that it is thus better to launch your own career as it were, doing most of the work by yourself instead of letting a label handle that part of the process. I agree but only if the structure of the label in question is modeled on the traditional pyramidical model.
We at Devils Mind Records thought it necessary to reinvestigate the role of the label, and pardon me but the caffeine hasn't quite kicked in yet, so I'll just quote a bit from our website:
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| - We are a label and a collective. While the traditional hierarchical structure of a label looks like a pyramid, ours is flat, which means that none of us involved takes a first cut of the revenue and then hands over what is left to the artists.
- When an album or an EP has reached break-even, meaning it has done well enough to cover the costs of producing it, everything goes to the artist(s). Compilations still work as a way of funding new releases and a source of revenue for possible donations.
- We are a collective with access to all the tools of a label, which means that we have a platform for our musicians get their work out. This way we have total control of our work – from draft to release – plus, we help exercise a certain amount of quality control within the community. We want our listeners to know what they can expect from us.
- If everyone goes solo and publishes their work online, it will be more difficult for the music fan to filter out poor releases to find the gems. We scout for new artists and offer them a platform to showcase their work, which means that not only can we help new artists, but we can also help our listeners connect with and discover new talent. |
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This is how we've chosen to adapt to the current market. I believe that we can achieve more together as a collective than alone as scattered artists. We've had fun together at label parties, helped each other by sharing contacts, experiences and knowledge, and achieved stuff that I doubt I'd be able to pull off were I not a part of this group of creative individuals.
If you're interested in learning more about our concept, please feel free to hit up this link: http://devilsmindrecords.org/?page_id=13
Lastly, it costs money, it does. Passion alone has got us to where we're at today and, again, hadn't it been for these guys I would've given up a long time ago, but working with them, developing and running all these projects, is such a rewarding experience that I tend to forget about dollar signs for a while. I believe that there's still a place for the label, but that the structure must be changed. There's simply not enough financial flow to have someone at the top taking a first cut of the revenues à la 50/50 deals. Instead, artists could organize themselves in collectives (read: labels) and by having a flat structure, they'd make sure that the revenue goes untouched to the right people.
Aural transmissions from the deep forests of Sweden
www.dvsmrecords.org - 'Patterns II EP' by Silent Horror out now! |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 13:19
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So, let's summarize something, the artist whines because the label does not enough promotion, the labels whine that the distributors kill them, the distributors go bankrupt (remember Cosmophilia?) or go crazy and make conditions with labels that seem pretty harsh, Beat Agency and Main Coon are best friends, the artists might be better off with a mixture of Ekyoplazm, and other sites like Bandcamp, where is DH when you need him???, Jacynth us spaced out and finally around, and I am left wondering which way I should go in the future. The truth is, I don't know whom or what to trust, or which way would suit me best, as a matter if fact this thread has left me scratching my head even more, how very refreshingly baffling... 
Checking out your link now Scoobah
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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scobbah
Kiriyama
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
991
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 13:33
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Well, if the artist whines that the label doesn't work enough to promote a release, that'd change if the artist himself or herself were responsible for the release, i.e. ran the label and felt a different obligation to make sure things happen rather than entrusting the release with someone who's anything but inspired to work as the sales figures couldn't be more disheartening.
As to labels complaining that the distributors take too large a cut, I wish to remind you that most labels are run by people that have regular day jobs, meaning much of the work with the label happens after work. If one were to do all the work by oneself, in other words not collaborating with a distributor, it'd mean a lot of extra work on the part of the label. If you have a regular day job, please ask yourself if you're ready to undertake the extra work it means by running the show yourself from a to z. I'm glad that there still are a few distributors around as I doubt that we'd be able to keep the label up on its feet were we to take care of the distribution ourselves. Rather than taking care of invoices, packing boxes and have them shipped out, I spend my time developing new releases and scouting for new talent.
If you don't have a regular day job, well, I guess then things are different and you actually have the time to take care of everything yourself. I have the impression, however, that most of us don't have that amount of time.
Aural transmissions from the deep forests of Sweden
www.dvsmrecords.org - 'Patterns II EP' by Silent Horror out now! |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 13:52
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On 2011-09-11 13:19, Upavas wrote:
Beat Agency and Main Coon are best friends
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Sorry, didn't mean to turn it into a spitting contest. I guess, neither one of us did. Hope at least some of our babbling was on-topic and useful to this discussion.
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The truth is, I don't know whom or what to trust, or which way would suit me best, as a matter if fact this thread has left me scratching my head even more, how very refreshingly baffling...
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You can trust Alex and (by extension) Ektoplazm. Something I've realized in my life over and over again: people first, business models second. The best label in the world will be useless to you if it's run by a dishonest jerk. The worst job in the world is tolarable if you work with good people. Etc. Come think of it, with Alex and Ektoplazm you win on both fronts.  |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 14:47
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On 2011-09-11 05:25, Maine Coon wrote:
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And by the way I had a lot of my music released for free on Ektoplazm and probably know a bit more facts about releasing via Ektoplazm versus the traditional way than you do . I also know by fact that almost none of the artists releasing via Ektoplazm gets bookings (A small handful got lucky or worked very hard to get a few bookings - probably also had to sell themselves short at first) and they certainly get very few donations even though their releases are downloaded in the 1000's. So the end result is that the majority of artists on sites such as Ektoplazm are downloaded but does not benefit from any bookings or donations.
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Let's hear from DH on that issue. I understand that they are probably more of an exception, but maybe there is something in their experience that others may follow. Once again, if they credit Ektoplazm for (part of) their success - is it not one of the ways to promote this label?
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The reality of things is that estalbished DJs and promoters don't really know anything about Ektoplazm. It is easier to get gigs if you are on a well known label, as most people simply turn to the output of a label they have trusted over the years, to see what's new. That is how promoters work as well.
Then again there are the new people that put on smaller parties that know about Ektoplazm. For example, we got to play Switzerland, Germany and Holland because the people that contacted us, had just downloaded our free music from Ektoplazm, so it worked for us.
The EPs on Neurobiotic reached a much wider audience, but most importantly, they reached certain people that "count" when it comes to getting gigs... the up coming releases on Etnicanet and Krome Pressings, will help us reach even more people that put on parties and we have some collaboartions coming up with some massive names, that will also help us, for sure.
On the money issue through releases, we have made nothing yet...actually I still owe Alex 30bucks from miscalculating CND for USD for sending us the CDs over, so we are something like -250bucks.
I know the two EPs went well on Beatport sales, made the top 10 in the psy-trance charts and all that jazz, but I still have no clue how that translates in cash, as I do not know the amount of downloads a tune needs to go into Beatport's top 10...and we all know that Beatport's charting scheme, is biased.
The best promotion we did was away from the internet. Just got to know a few established names by going to see them, through out the years, having a few beers or whatever with them and then handing them over a CD with some tunes on. Then came the feedback about them liking and playing some tunes to great responce and then came parts for us to remix their tunes which they signed over.
None of the Etnica and Deedrah remixes are released yet, I am interesed to see how much these releases, will effect bookings.
Now having said all that, the whole music and money and fame story, is very different, depending on who you are and what you expect in life.
There are people that make serious cash from making and playing trance music, its the same people that have been making serious cash since the '90s.
We expected nothing more than enjoying our selves in the studio. We got far more than what we expected and feel blessed to be where we are today. Yet things are looking more promising in the future.
Still tho, I do not consider my self a "professional" artist.
Making trance tunes is my love and free time hobby, just like jamming on my guitar or tenor.
I have a day job, which pays my bills, I enjoy very much and allows me to fly out for 4 days, whenever I choose to and most importantly, make whatever kind of music I like without worrying who it might appeal to, or how much money it will generate.
It keeps my relationship with trance music in check...and keeps the ol' grumpyness away...
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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V3NOM
Inactive User
Started Topics :
131
Posts :
2234
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 16:05
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The problem as far as I can see it is not that labels aren't promoting you, it's more that the artists need to ensure their music is getting directly into the hands of the people who count in the scene.
I'd suspect that many of those who count (promoters & dj etc.) see how much crap there is out there nowadays and just keep playing what they like, and can't be fucked trawling through all the free releases online.
If you, the artist, gets Off your arse & go to gigs and go up to the promoter, buy him a beer or ten then hand over a cd or USB or whatever with your tunes they'll more than likely listen. And then keep hassling them for a gig.
It's just like getting a job. If you just keep sending your resume they'll just keep chucking it in the bin. But if you follow it up with a phone call & email they'll more than likely give you the interview.
I reckon to many younger artists just go "it's too much effort to push hard so I'll just whine online instead". When if they put as much effort into physically pushing their name they might get some gigs.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy! |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 16:16
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On 2011-09-11 16:05, V3NOM wrote:
The problem as far as I can see it is not that labels aren't promoting you, it's more that the artists need to ensure their music is getting directly into the hands of the people who count in the scene.
I'd suspect that many of those who count (promoters & dj etc.) see how much crap there is out there nowadays and just keep playing what they like, and can't be fucked trawling through all the free releases online.
If you, the artist, gets Off your arse & go to gigs and go up to the promoter, buy him a beer or ten then hand over a cd or USB or whatever with your tunes they'll more than likely listen. And then keep hassling them for a gig.
It's just like getting a job. If you just keep sending your resume they'll just keep chucking it in the bin. But if you follow it up with a phone call & email they'll more than likely give you the interview.
I reckon to many younger artists just go "it's too much effort to push hard so I'll just whine online instead". When if they put as much effort into physically pushing their name they might get some gigs.
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UTOPIA. Please enlighten me how any person can afford to travel to parties worldwide to meet the organizers from money put out from their own pocket? I guess if you have rich parents you have a chance And where is the insurance it will give any bookings?
Yes there are local parties but let's face it. To make it in this scene you need to be active international and I simply do not buy into your idea. It's not realistic.
And then there's your point regarding artist having to do the label work. Then what's the idea of releasing on a label IF the artists have to do their work? One of the key jobs in a label is to make sure the music ends up in the right hands. Of course an artist can help here too but at the end of the day it's the labels responsibility to promote the release. That's why I say the artists are just as well of doing the whole damn thing on their own.
Many artists have been off their "arses" for years yet nothing happens. You make it sound so easy. I guess if you know what's the real world out there then you'll know it's not at all as easy as you want to make it
And I am dead tired of watching people telling the artists they "whine" when they debate the situation in this scene. That's low and a debate killer. Get over it!
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On 2011-09-11 16:05, V3NOM wrote:
It's just like getting a job. If you just keep sending your resume they'll just keep chucking it in the bin. But if you follow it up with a phone call & email they'll more than likely give you the interview.
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Not where I live. I send out 40 CV's and got 15 job offers. I guess those CV's did not end up in the bin
The point is if you can not afford to travel the world in search and hope for a few gigs then your second solution has to be the internet or phone calls. That's the reality in the real world.
www.beatagency.dk |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 20:23
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Quote:
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On 2011-09-11 16:16, Beat Agency wrote:
UTOPIA. Please enlighten me how any person can afford to travel to parties worldwide to meet the organizers from money put out from their own pocket? I guess if you have rich parents you have a chance And where is the insurance it will give any bookings?
Yes there are local parties but let's face it. To make it in this scene you need to be active international and I simply do not buy into your idea. It's not realistic.
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Kristian mate, you don't have to travel worldwide and chase up on everything and everyone. The one summer festival or even one local party can make a difference.
In our case it was hooking up with Max and Mauri from Etnica at a party in Athens and then hanging out with Mauri at Jordan's (the one you sold your DAT player in the '90s) place. Had a few beers and smokes, listening to some music, including ours, Mauri liked it, played it in their parties and gave us a few tunes to remix, which some people heard and booked us for this summer's (amazing) Sol Fest.
More people heard our music there and liked it and we are booked again for next year....you know the drill you've done this whole thing for ages way back.
And no there are no insurances that you will get bookings, but in my case it does not matter as I am not looking for a carrer change, just travel the world, play some tunes and have a good time with my friends.
I think people need to put htings into perspective these days...if you are an up and coming artist its going to require a lot of energy, time but most of all, love for what it is you are doing.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 20:36
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Believe me there are no parties in Denmark worth visiting these days unless you are into Hell Angels, gangs, silicone bimbo's and tribal tattooed weight lifters.
Love for what you are doing does not land you gigs in this scene where starstruck organizers care more about keeping a monopoly, drugs and serving the same lineup than pushing things forward.
I guess I also don't really care that much about this scene anymore to work hard to get bookings. Last big gig I played my set was cut short 45 min's. (I was scheduled for a 1.5 hour "live") because some "Star" did not want to get off the stage at the scheduled time and the organizers felt a mumbo jumbo shamanic ritual was more important than to respect the fact I had worked for months to make a new live-set.
I am still not convinced traveling to Festivals will land new artists any gigs as most Festivals are not interested in new artists and let's see if they can get backstage at the STAR VIP area to find the dope smoking Joe's to talk to. They book the same artists and DJ's year after year and will continue doing so the next 10 years until they stop throwing Festivals and parties. As I have said before. This scene is a dead cow IMO and I am not going to waste one more minute in the studio making music in this scene or waste any more time on the scene in general. All my music related to this scene has been taken down from the Internet and I feel liberated
I will probably stay here and do some trolling for the heck of it
www.beatagency.dk |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 20:48
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Quote:
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On 2011-09-11 20:36, Beat Agency wrote:
Love for what you are doing does not land you gigs in this scene
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It doesn't, but does it matter? Would you not make the music you love regardless of whether it gets you gigs, or not?
That is the whole point I am trying to make, if you make the music you love making, then you've reached your goals. Everything else is just a bonus.
Peace out.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 20:49
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On 2011-09-11 20:48, disco hooligans wrote:
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On 2011-09-11 20:36, Beat Agency wrote:
Love for what you are doing does not land you gigs in this scene
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It doesn't, but does it matter? Would you not make the music you love regardless of whether it gets you gigs, or not?
That is the whole point I am trying to make, if you make the music you love making, then you've reached your goals. Everything else is just a bonus.
Peace out.
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I do make the music I love and it's not psytrance or Goatrance
www.beatagency.dk |
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Wizack Twizack
Wizack Twizack
Started Topics :
239
Posts :
3486
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 21:03
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Beat Agency, With your negative vibes your spreading all over this forum probably nobody will miss you? I dont see why you are here when u obviously absolutley hate this music and everything with it.
Now when you officially ending your "psytrance carrer" you should really move on instead and leave all this terrible things behind you, as it seems you do really hate it. I do not mean to offend you in any way here, but i think you know what i mean.
cheers!
For Contact & Bookings:
Wizack_Booking@hotmail.com
www.soundcloud.com/wizack_Twizack
New Album Out: Wizack Twizack - IV (Ovnimoon Records 2011) http://www.beatport.com/#release/wizack-twizack-iv/387698 |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 21:10
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Thanks for the advice Wizack. Sorry I wont make use of it. I'll stay put for a little while longer to make your online life a bit more interesting. I plan to go out with a bang from this community of wannabe's, long haired low esteem trolls and blue forum star kiddos (I do respect a few here but not many)
www.beatagency.dk |
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