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Labels and Promotion.
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
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1752
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 16:57
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So show me one label who make money enough to even pay out a salary in this scene hence being able to afford to act like a professional label and pay for proper promotion.
Your petty attempt to make my point into something about my person does not swipe away the fact that this scene has got none or very little financial strength.
Anyone claiming a label is a good business in this scene got to lay off the drugs!
No matter what you guys think you know(You're obviously no experts in label management and promotion) I commend artists to release their own music and have full control over their own future. I haven't seen many labels in this scene who are professional enough for an artists to gain any advantage releasing with them. The professional labels can be counted on one hand in this scene and they are still no financial success.
This topic is about Record label promotion and NOT if an artists gain gigs from releasing with a label (Its possible to gain gigs not being on a label). Many don't get gigs even being on one of the well known labels (I wont mention names - some are on this forum and can speak for themselves). So stay on topic and show me one label who invest in proper promotion in this scene. NONE does it as they simply can not afford it and frankly it's a bad investment in a scene with no sales.
  www.beatagency.dk |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 17:07
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Labels are only something for teenagers nowadays that have the ilusion of runing a label and making money(or by idealists that push their heart and soul in it and dont matter about any commercial success),NO adult would invest any serious -money- like for advertisments and all it around, with the intention to gain even more by selling some psytrance music, and this for many many years.
Hope no one gets hurt here you know it's right.
Labels are only names .. additonal names nothing more nowadays. Ektoplazm should be the most known meanwhile I guess for many even the only one known.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 17:09
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On 2011-09-10 17:07, TimeTraveller wrote:
Labels are only something for teenagers nowadays that have the ilusion of runing a label and making money(or by idealists that push their heart and soul in it and dont matter about any commercial success),NO adult would invest any serious -money- like for advertisments and all it around, with the intention to gain even more by selling some psytrance music, and this for many many years.
Hope no one gets hurt here you know it's right.
Labels are only names .. additonal names nothing more nowadays. Ektoplazm should be the most known meanwhile  I guess for many even the only one known.
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You will be flamed by Maine Coon and his courtship for that opinion 
www.beatagency.dk |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 17:13
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Pureuphoria
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
45
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 18:01
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...critisising is easier as I've mentioned.)
but then there isn't much to learn.
maybe names are just names, but in my opinion label is a playground, a crosspoint ...like a company of people who are doing same thing and sharing passion for live and music)
internet is a good place to promote...things are happening by itselv here...sometimes the release gets stolen and spreaded out before the its actually released - so what ways of promotion are we talking about?, I see no roblem rather then lack of interest.& often I feel that music is BIGGER then forums or bizz) |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 18:25
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No criticizing from my point. Just a reality wake up call. I think it's nice and cool if people decide to release music and open up a label as long as they do not have unrealistic expectations.
But the point is still that most artists would not benefit much from releasing their music with labels contra releasing their music on their own small labels. As said earlier a label is just a name pushing a few gigs for the top 10 artists (the small ones and even known still struggle to get gigs). There is not much sense in signing up with a label and give them 50% (sometimes more to the label) for the labels to upload their music to a digital shop. Everybody can do that
www.beatagency.dk |
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bhooteshwara records
Bhooteshwara Records
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
105
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 20:42
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This topic is one of the better ones here 
As a label i tried to push the promotion with each release but each year sales get lower and lower
People just don't buy that's a fact.
Our last release we pay to triskele menagment for promoting our release and we didn't sell not even 20 cd's more then the last release.
Year by year the cd sales go lower and lower what i would suggest for ppl (labels) as it was mentioned previously is to get facebook fan page, sending a good mailing list, posting on the most forums u know about this type of music and also putting some add in mushroom magazine get's u a bit more promoted.
Of course there is many labels who are getting boring with their spam announcing that they plan a cd then they make new spam about which artists will be on the cd then about tracklist then that they have release date then that is out. I think this kind of promotion makes the listener tired and when the cd is out you dont even notice because is too much spam and u dont even check the release anymore.
Good promotion is just few weeks before it goes out and when it is out for the next month because we all know psytrance sells only the first two months afeter release date and after this two months the sales are very very low per month.
And yes to be able to pay promotion in psytrance u must love psytrance and do it from your own pocket because most of the time you wont get back what u invested
http://bhooteshwara.com/
https://soundcloud.com/bhooteshwara |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
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3315
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 22:42
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On 2011-09-10 14:25, Beat Agency wrote:
Release your own music digital (Or release it free) and be your own master.
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I am seriously considering e.g. bandcamp, yes! One of the limitations with labels seems to be that they basically don't try to explore new ways of advertising, they seem to stick to the psy scene.
I have some very good ambient music, and I am looking for ways to get it out to other people, not only psy geeks, true, with ambient music you somewhat have potential for a larger audience, as there are many people who have nothing to do with psy and listen to ambient sound... why not at least try with dance music too...?
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Sep 10, 2011 23:24
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On 2011-09-09 01:06, Ascension wrote:
Imo some might be overlooking something like Ektoplazm as a promo tool. If a known label puts together a decent free release it should get several thousand downloads.
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I encourage commercial labels to put together a 4-track sampler to release under a Creative Commons licence but few bother to do so.
I also sell banner advertising for those labels wishing to reach 200,000+ visitors a month.
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 01:40
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Quote:
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On 2011-09-10 17:09, Beat Agency wrote:
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On 2011-09-10 17:07, TimeTraveller wrote:
Labels are only something for teenagers nowadays that have the ilusion of runing a label and making money(or by idealists that push their heart and soul in it and dont matter about any commercial success),NO adult would invest any serious -money- like for advertisments and all it around, with the intention to gain even more by selling some psytrance music, and this for many many years.
Hope no one gets hurt here you know it's right.
Labels are only names .. additonal names nothing more nowadays. Ektoplazm should be the most known meanwhile I guess for many even the only one known.
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You will be flamed by Maine Coon and his courtship for that opinion
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Maine Coon is not in a habit of flaming. Certainly, not flaming TimeTraveller. Especially, since I agree with him (this time ).
Back to your argument: yes, this discussion is about labels promoting themselves and not labels promoting artists. No, it is not a discussion about the financial strength of the Scene. You always tell everybody to stay on topic until it’s your turn to introduce an irrelevant argument, isn’t it?
The Scene is small and scattered – just like you said many times. No advertisement budget etc. Word-of-mouth promotion. In this situation, labels depend on artists for their promotion as much as artists depend on labels. Case study for you: look how Ektoplazm catapulted Ekoplex and how the news of Ekoplex’s booking increased prestige of Ektoplazm. Why is it that none of your wise replies ever mention Ektoplazm?
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 02:30
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I appreciate the support but let's keep things in perspective here Ektoplazm is not a complete solution for most labels and artists; it is merely an alternative to commercial music distribution. For some labels and artists it works quite well. For others, not so much. It all depends on what the labels and artists are hoping to achieve. I've got exposure covered... but transforming that exposure into bookings has always been slow going. A few international gigs for a handful of artists out of thousands is not what I call success. Moreover, I tend to lose many genuinely talented artists (e.g. Disco Hooligans or Brujo's Bowl) to prestigious commercial labels after they gain a foothold in the scene. Such artists probably would have made it without my help, mind you, though it may have taken a little longer.
Anyway, let's not get too off topic. Also, let's not get personal
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 03:07
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^
And when DH move to Malibu and drink daiquiris with surgically enhanced blonds, booking agents and big label executives and don’t forget to mention Ektoplazm – is it not promotion for your label? It goes both ways, IMHO. Especially in a scene as small and scattered as this one.
I discover more artists through Ektoplazm and SoundCloud than through pirate blogs. Well, part of it is me trying to stop pirating, but part is exactly what BA said: known labels release known artists. So, if you want to discover somebody new (or even not “born” yet) – commercial labels (and pirates as their “distributors”) are not the way to go. And I think I am not the only one realizing that. Otherwise, why would you advertise your releases on PsyMania?
I did not say Ektoplazm is “a complete solution for most labels and artists”. Just that it is a label. And it is run in a professional manner. It seems to be viable financially too (correct me if I am wrong). And also it’s hard to believe that artists are better off posting their work on their Web sites than releasing through Ektoplazm. Which is why BA consistently omits it in his cheerful posts.
[off-topic] That reminds me of an old joke (math vs. physics). A physicist proves that odd numbers are prime. 1 is a prime number (not really but let’s go with it), 3 is, so are 5 and 7. 9 is not - we’ll write it off as an experimental error. 11 is, 13 is, 15 – unlucky pick again, 17, 19 – both prime. 10 numbers is a large enough sample for me and 80% is a good enough indication of the trend.[/off-topic]
[on-topic] Let’s not omit cases that don’t fit into your agenda. So, Kristian, what do you have to say about Ektoplazm?
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 03:50
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Quote:
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On 2011-09-11 03:07, Maine Coon wrote:
And also it’s hard to believe that artists are better off posting their work on their Web sites than releasing through Ektoplazm. Which is why BA consistently omits it in his cheerful posts.
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No that's not at all what I said. But I am not surprised you misinterpret my "cheerful" point.
My point is still and always was that artists just as well run their own labels and UPLOAD their music to digital shops as a label can. And gain whatever income they will get instead of sharing 50/50 with a lael who basically does no work and certainly got no clue what promotion is all about - or simply does not care. It's not rocket science. And if you bothered to read my posts carefully (I know you did not in your eager to become personal - as usual) you would have noticed I recommend free releases too.
And by the way I had a lot of my music released for free on Ektoplazm and probably know a bit more facts about releasing via Ektoplazm versus the traditional way than you do . I also know by fact that almost none of the artists releasing via Ektoplazm gets bookings (A small handful got lucky or worked very hard to get a few bookings - probably also had to sell themselves short at first) and they certainly get very few donations even though their releases are downloaded in the 1000's. So the end result is that the majority of artists on sites such as Ektoplazm are downloaded but does not benefit from any bookings or donations.
But the many artists who lack bookings got more to do with organizers having a very hard time embracing new ideas and very conservative organizers going for "the safe call" still believing those artists who release for free are secondary less quality artists than those having a CD or digital release. It's really not that hard to get released on some "prestige" label but in order to do that you have to sell your musical soul and sound like all the rest out there. It's a choice if you want that or remain in control of your own music. www.beatagency.dk |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 05:25
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Quote:
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On 2011-09-11 03:50, Beat Agency wrote:
And if you bothered to read my posts carefully (I know you did not in your eager to become personal - as usual) you would have noticed I recommend free releases too.
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You consistently overestimate your own importance - in general and in my life in particular.
I read your posts here carefully (as I always do) and it just surprised me that you did not treat Ektoplazm as a label, especially since you have plenty of your own music there.
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And by the way I had a lot of my music released for free on Ektoplazm and probably know a bit more facts about releasing via Ektoplazm versus the traditional way than you do . I also know by fact that almost none of the artists releasing via Ektoplazm gets bookings (A small handful got lucky or worked very hard to get a few bookings - probably also had to sell themselves short at first) and they certainly get very few donations even though their releases are downloaded in the 1000's. So the end result is that the majority of artists on sites such as Ektoplazm are downloaded but does not benefit from any bookings or donations.
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Let's hear from DH on that issue. I understand that they are probably more of an exception, but maybe there is something in their experience that others may follow. Once again, if they credit Ektoplazm for (part of) their success - is it not one of the ways to promote this label?
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Sep 11, 2011 05:29
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I am done debating with you. You twist my words. Prime troll work dude. I was going to call you names but you are not even worth that
I am out! www.beatagency.dk |
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