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L2 problems
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 02:30
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i finished a track and i want to apply the L2 on it to fatten it up, problem is some things sound much better but other things get swallowed. i have wasted about 10 cd's that i burn each time in order to listen to my track in the car where in my opinion it needs to sound good as it sounds on my dynaudios... but there is always a problem.
for example my bass sounds awesome but my synths fall to the back 
can anyone fill me in?
oh and since when u put "l2" in the search u get this:
"At least one of your search terms must be longer than 3 letters. The system ignores words shorter than that"
so excuse me if that was discussed before.
  "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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Hayez
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
393
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 05:57
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Surrender, you don't put the L2 to 'fatten' the sound. The L2 is a limiter which means that it's going to squeez your dynamic range. This results the feeling that the balance is changed. In your case the balance was broken. You might misused the L2 or there is some problem in your mix. Try listening to it in the car without the L2, is it sounds now as good as in your studio ?
"a new art came into my mind which only you can create, the Art of Noises, the logical consequence of your marvelous innovations." Russolo, 1913 |
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Cyzum
Cyzum
Started Topics :
77
Posts :
347
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 06:04
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Yeah, the L2 is just a limiter to raise the overall output of the song without clipping.
If you are using the Waves plug ins.. try using the maxbass to pump up the subs a little, the stereo expander, c1 compressor (or c4) then L2. Thats what I just did with my final mix of my latest track and it sounds pretty thick. |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 06:38
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I haven't used it yet, so i don't know it, but for fatten up ur track try disco dsp thrill me, it is quite good.
And maybe try rewritable cds for testing 
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 11:07
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Hayez is right.
Basically, if say your bass a bit loud, the limititer will kick in when it's peaking, and therefore lower the mids and treble.
First of all, check out your frequency balance.
The easiest I find to do this is the bar graph visualisation on windowns media player.
A straight line is pretty much what you are aiming for.
Sounds silly I know, but more serious and precise analyzer like PAZ take more practice to know how it should look.
Correct by EQ'ing, and maybe use a multiband-compressor/limiter like LinMB or L3.
If you use the L3 of course you skip the L2 in the last stage.
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 11:23
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First of all, use cd-rw
After you finish a track, mixdown it without any limiters or anything. Just the track itself. Open it in sound forge. Look for peaks, using the eyes not the ears. Once you've found them, try to find out what caused them. 2 hi-hats together? Go back to the sequencer and remove one of them. Manually remove all of the peaks.
Now you got yourself ready for some compression. Use the L2 so it only reduces 3-4 db at the heaviest and busiest parts. This should do it, and make the track ready for playing on parties and stuff.
If the track is going to be released you don't need to use the L2 or anything on the master. The label will take care of that anyway.
Cyzum - you are supposed to make the track sound good without a single thing on the master. That's how I work, anyway.
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 16:26
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i think my mix isnt perfect... it is definately not a straight line...
i have much action going on in the lows (bass) and the mids but not enough in the highs... only small peaks there, maybe thats why.
and mike, a cdrw doesnt have the best quality so im back to square 1, also - from the tracks u sent me, i think your music lacks "fat", maybe u should try L2
thanks for the good advice people, i will try to implement it.
"On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon |
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 17:02
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Btw, how do u use the L2 properly???
Do u try to have the best mix on highest level possible, and then just make a little master??? Or do u make the level little bit lower(I make it, and let the sound like in -2/3 db) and make a fatter master???
LOADING... |
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Fearkiller
Fearkiller
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
189
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 18:37
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Im using nice(imho)vst compressor\limiter - PSP MixPressor..there are all i need - compressor\limiter(saturator) Compressor make sound fatest, limiter check the peaks) |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 18:43
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Of course, always try to get the best mix possible.
If you have sounds with to sharp transients, or that is generally too loud, the limiter will mess with the whole track in the parts where they are present.
So if you want a hard dense sound with sounds that is not peaking to much, compress them in the mix.
If the mix have a correct frequency balance, and not to much stuff peaking really hard, you should be able to limit the track so it sounds same percived loudness as a good reference for the type of material you are working with. Thats the main issue. You don't want it to sound louder, even if the mix is really good, and will allow that without artifacts.
And of course you don't want it to sound low either.
Settings to acheive that depends on the mix, so you can't really say any fixed value in dB.
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 20:01
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Quote:
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On 2004-10-11 16:26, Surrender wrote:
also - from the tracks u sent me, i think your music lacks "fat", maybe u should try L2
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If you think that L2 is what I'm missing then you clearly have no idea what is the L2 for. What you heard from me has crap sound, and L2 is not something to fix it.
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 21:48
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ok guys ... period !!!
u gotta understand tht WAves L2 , L1 and L3 are all LIMITERS......
they only deal with the percieved and mean [ rms ] loudness levels of a mix ..... and nuthin to do with changing the dynamic composition of a mix or either the spectral balance ....
respect ..boom !
how can a trk made to be sound FAT by using L2 surrender ???
maybe i dont know sumthin hehe .. !
respect ... boom !
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ThiagoNAKA
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
104
Posts :
1047
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 21:54
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Actually I think that L2 makes my track more fat indeed.
Maybe it´s not the goal of the L2, but it does it for me. That´s why I asked the difference between making the master(L2 issue) with -0.1Db track or -3.0Db track. I made some experiments, and the botton line was: applying the L2 on the -3.0 Db I got better and fatter result than on -0.1Db one. Maybe I lost little bit of dynamics, but my ear can´t hear this lost...
LOADING... |
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 22:05
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L2 works on automatical attack which sometimes overmade , L2 only tool and limited one for your needs so do not wait to get good results with it for your fatter mission . It basicly increase values that not need to be increased sometimes because once again it not provide enough parameters to control .
Gadi i think you should feel and make it gentle enough in order to not get swallow . Sound good on your Dynaudio means it sound good for you but maybe you just not expirienced enough to judge (no offence please me not better than you). In order to get fatter mix better use compressor which allow you to make gentle limiting than hard uncontrolleble one which L2 offers . I L2 use more for specific channels than on main mix where all things must be at top . You can also fatter the mix with Eq by removing unwanted harmonics and increase main level with freq-ranges you actualy need . It makes the job for me .
hope i helped . |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 11, 2004 22:52
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Global Trance Network:
L1 and L2 is limiters.
L3 is a multiband limiter.
They both interfear with frequency balance, but in different way.
Using a single band compressor/limiter on a very hard setting would do that for example when a kick is present the overall level of the track has to be reduced. Although it technically don't alter the frequency of the material, you will percive the hi-hat's as pumping in and out. The overall balance in the track become somewhat altered as an effect.
The L3 will for sure radically alter the frequency balance if it's heavily applied, especially on a straight setting with a mix that is out frequency wise.
For sure a limited track will sound somewhat fatter, no doubt, but the L2 is not the right tool to add missing fatness in a mix. It's a very transparent limiter, and will add as little as possible.
Like Dimitri said, fatness can normally be aquired with the use of EQ, or maybe in very thin sounding mixes something like PSP Vintage Warmer.
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