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KRK Ergo
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LS.
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
130
Posted : Jun 16, 2008 19:30:44
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Your thoughts on something like this. It sounds like bull and the description offers the reader nothing about the complexities of how this thing really works.
What are your thoughts on this type of thing. Good or bad?
http://www.mediaspec.co.uk/news.asp?story=93 |
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hugaw
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
319
Posted : Jun 16, 2008 19:33
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a little box like this could solve all your room-related problems ?
i don't tkink so...
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LS.
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
130
Posted : Jun 16, 2008 19:36
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I believe the price ion that site is £445.
Very hard to believe |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jun 16, 2008 21:19
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Well even if you acoustically treat your room you still won´t achieve a linear frequency response in your sweetspot. We did a test in a acoustically treated room with a pair of nexo ps15 which according to the Spec is supposed to be quite linear if you use their dsp controller if you exclude freq below 100Hz. But we found that we had approx a +- 4dB from 100Hz to 10KHz with one speaker aimed straight at the calibration mic from B&K. So to archive this linear response in your sweetspot i think this little piece of machinery is a good investment after you treated your room ofc. or go for the Genelec 8250A or 8240A.
One more thing that i´ve been asking myself when it comes to mixing, do you really want to have a completely linear freq response considering that we or atleast me sometimes like the feeling when it sounds "fat" that little x-tra feeling when you produce. That would lead to that it becomes to muddy and weird sounding when the end-user has applied all the loudness and eq on the bought cd.
Here is the freq response for one of the speakers
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/vegetalmusic/Freq.jpg
We compensated it with a 31 band Eq on the output channel, still its not 100% ok but its a good start depending on how long you want to spend pulling levers   Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 07:44
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vegetal,
you don't have the 3D graph by chance with the Z seconds plane? Time it takes to get back to floor noise.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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acidkills
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
431
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 08:12
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I almost end up buying it, some guy said its no good so.. But I still think its cool, and it works in very easy way, u get microphone and u place it in your sweetspot, play some sine and than it calculates reverberation off the room and adjusts the output.. It works in the same principle in which altiverb does.. Cool piece of gear.. If u have KRK monitors..
http://www.myspace.com/djacidkills
http://soundcloud.com/acidkills/dropbox |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 13:34
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-17 07:44, Trip- wrote:
vegetal,
you don't have the 3D graph by chance with the Z seconds plane? Time it takes to get back to floor noise.
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Nop that wasn´t possible since we played a continues pink noise and measured with Pulse. The reverberation time in the room is very short, they built the "room inside another room"-theory and thick rockwool in the walls and celling, and sand in the floor so its close to zero.
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 13:38
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 15:48
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close to zero means almost zero? that would be anechoic.
Any studio has a certain RT60 per frequency. There's a "healthy" area of RT60 for a studio.
Anyhow, the time axis would be a good way to see resonant areas on the graph. You didn't measure, fine. That's probably something the Ergo wouldn't solve.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 16:48
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-17 15:48, Trip- wrote:
close to zero means almost zero? that would be anechoic.
Any studio has a certain RT60 per frequency. There's a "healthy" area of RT60 for a studio.
Anyhow, the time axis would be a good way to see resonant areas on the graph. You didn't measure, fine. That's probably something the Ergo wouldn't solve.
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Im not sure how close to zero it is , im mean the room qualifys for En 352-1 and some more standards i can´t remember at the moment.
And on subective matter , when you enter the room it feels very dead, a handclap and you won´t notice a reverberation, so lets say its a healthy RT60.
I´ve seen some tests with other systems where they managed to improve the freq-response but you ended up more reverberation instead.
So id say that this system is for fine tuning your sweetspot in a acoustically treated room.
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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acidkills
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
431
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 17:21
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On 2008-06-17 13:38, vegetal wrote:
Quote:
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why would you have to have krk-monitors?
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Since its configured for them.. They now their speakers best since they doing them and other speakers have different characteristic which makes adjusting different.. It could work with others though.. I considered one JBL series of speakers which have included microphone and something like the ergo system built in speakers but they are way more expensive.. I would buy ergo, dont doubt its efficiency, since room treatment is simple math.. Its just that its not sold where I live.. And the price of ergo is bit high also.. I like the A > B switching speakers feature..
http://www.myspace.com/djacidkills
http://soundcloud.com/acidkills/dropbox |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 17:57
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-17 17:21, acidkills wrote:
On 2008-06-17 13:38, vegetal wrote:
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why would you have to have krk-monitors?
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Since its configured for them.. They now their speakers best since they doing them and other speakers have different characteristic which makes adjusting different.. It could work with others though.. I considered one JBL series of speakers which have included microphone and something like the ergo system built in speakers but they are way more expensive.. I would buy ergo, dont doubt its efficiency, since room treatment is simple math.. Its just that its not sold where I live.. And the price of ergo is bit high also.. I like the A > B switching speakers feature..
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Configured for them? i mean once you start playing your speakers in a room, the freq response will probably not even be close to what KRK measured 1m away in their lab. There fore claiming it to be configured for only KRK-speakers sounds weird if you ask me.
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 18:24
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-17 16:48, vegetal wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-06-17 15:48, Trip- wrote:
close to zero means almost zero? that would be anechoic.
Any studio has a certain RT60 per frequency. There's a "healthy" area of RT60 for a studio.
Anyhow, the time axis would be a good way to see resonant areas on the graph. You didn't measure, fine. That's probably something the Ergo wouldn't solve.
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Im not sure how close to zero it is , im mean the room qualifys for En 352-1 and some more standards i can´t remember at the moment.
And on subective matter , when you enter the room it feels very dead, a handclap and you won´t notice a reverberation, so lets say its a healthy RT60.
I´ve seen some tests with other systems where they managed to improve the freq-response but you ended up more reverberation instead.
So id say that this system is for fine tuning your sweetspot in a acoustically treated room.
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Clapping is ok... But I was implying on the whole freq range, esspecially those tricky lows and mids. Just adding to what you've answered.
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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acidkills
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
431
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 22:18
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Quote:
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On 2008-06-17 17:57, vegetal wrote:
Configured for them? i mean once you start playing your speakers in a room, the freq response will probably not even be close to what KRK measured 1m away in their lab. There fore claiming it to be configured for only KRK-speakers sounds weird if you ask me.
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They say:
"The patented algorithm in the system compares many measurements and corrects for phase and frequency problems using thousands of filters, not just a few. The result is the most accurate mix."
Which means they measure that "not even close" sound in the sweetspot and adjusting it to sound more like in their lab..
I mean they ran tests on krk's, not some other speakers so algorhythm is adjusted for them..
I mentioned alti verb, it measures reverb of a real room and recreates it after recording, similarly ergo is adjusting phase and freq problems to fit for "perfect mix"..
But it could work with others.. Maybe not so well but it could..
http://www.myspace.com/djacidkills
http://soundcloud.com/acidkills/dropbox |
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
411
Posted : Jun 17, 2008 22:45
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I prefer the ARC System from IK Multimedia(not that i'm going to even try it anyway). And get an additional monitor control if i need to.
I guess the KRK Ergo would fit low end home studios, but no way anything considered to lean towards to the pro level.
Because in this case, acoustic treatment would be there anyway. And what about the DA converters of Ergo?
This whole software "room correction" thing seems to be the new hype of the times and more companies come into the game as they see that it's a profitable market.
Another thing is that this kind of room correction works at its best in an already treated room, at least at some certain extent.
In an untreated it won't do really that much as it doesn't minimize the sound of the room, but rather it compensates for the optimal possible sounding result in the sweet spot only. And what happens to the rest of the room? And how wide is the sweet spot that is being calculated in terms of the real average head movement when in mix position?
In my opinion, the asking price of the Ergo could be easily translated to a very good DIY acoustic treatment for any average sized room providing much better results overall.
A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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