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Kids, animals and faces of meth
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 15:53
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I don't defend abuse. I don't think drugs are god.
I do defend hard drugs because alot of people are making a big fuss about it while most illegal drugs out there are less harmful than alcohol or riding a horse (quoting professor nutt here)...
  soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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Pavao
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
27
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 16:46
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imho there are responsible parents or dog owners that take care of their children and it doesnīt make a difference if itīs at home or at a festival (of course there are some adequate familylike festivals and some rather not)
I know several people running food- or clothesshops who take very well care about their children once they have some, taking part on festivals is a huge part in their life theyīre not there just to make party.
Sure there are some people who donīt realize that getting a child or having responsibility for an animal changes a lot in the way of living and who are not able to take propper care.
I donīt think banning children and animals from psy festivals generally would solve the problems, for me not the organizers should take care about them but the parents themselves, if they were clear enough to see that they arenīt able to give their children enough care in a gatthering because they want to party the way they did befor they had children than they should have left their children at the grandparents or whatever. Also just because you donīt see such bad things happening at a party you may feel better but things like that could probably happend to the children at their home too, where there is no one to notice it and give an advise or call help.
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 17:07
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Quote:
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On 2011-07-21 16:46, Pavao wrote:
I donīt think banning children and animals from psy festivals generally would solve the problems
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Of course it would solve the problems on the Festivals with annoying dogs, dog poo, dog piss, aggressive dogs (yes I've met them too), children being lost and as in this case a kid almost dying due to whatever circumstance he was put in. What about us who do not want dogs to run around simply because it's annoying as hell. We paid out tickets too. So the dog owners should be allowed to ruin it for the rest of us (I know a lot of people who don't want to see dogs on festivals)? It's very egocentric to give the dog owners the right to disturb everybody else.
And as for kids on Festivals I simply do not understand those who think it's OK to bring kids to multi-day festivals where (let's face it) a lot of people are off their rockers on various drugs or alcohol. IMO kids do not at all belong in such an environment. Not to forget the very loud music going on 24/7 potentially damaging their fragile ears.
www.beatagency.dk |
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saintcarl
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
209
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 17:16
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You should organize your own festival with huge police presence and no dogs, no kids, no drugs, no fun!
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On 2011-07-21 17:07, Beat Agency wrote:
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On 2011-07-21 16:46, Pavao wrote:
I donīt think banning children and animals from psy festivals generally would solve the problems
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Of course it would solve the problems on the Festivals with annoying dogs, dog poo, dog piss, aggressive dogs (yes I've met them too), children being lost and as in this case a kid almost dying due to whatever circumstance he was put in. What about us who do not want dogs to run around simply because it's annoying as hell. We paid out tickets too. So the dog owners should be allowed to ruin it for the rest of us (I know a lot of people who don't want to see dogs on festivals)? It's very egocentric to give the dog owners the right to disturb everybody else.
And as for kids on Festivals I simply do not understand those who think it's OK to bring kids to multi-day festivals where (let's face it) a lot of people are off their rockers on various drugs or alcohol. IMO kids do not at all belong in such an environment. Not to forget the very loud music going on 24/7 potentially damaging their fragile ears.
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 17:24
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Quote:
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On 2011-07-21 17:16, saintcarl wrote:
You should organize your own festival with huge police presence and no dogs, no kids, no drugs, no fun!
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Why? I don't see why i should organize anything. I make music and that is my small contribution.
That does not mean I should bow and automatic agree with people who think it's all OK to have annoying dogs all over the festivals or kids in potential danger. And believe me I am far from being alone on this thought 
It's a bit naive to think you can not have any fun just because there are no kids, dogs and heavy drugs present on the Festivals. Here I thought having fun also meant to listen to great music, danging with like minded people and meeting nice people (not necessary in the presence of kids and dogs).
And where did I ever speak about having a heavy Police presence? Please do not put words into my mouth www.beatagency.dk |
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Pavao
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
27
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 17:31
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well that is your opinion, Iīve explained mine in the post above
to be honnest in my experience in most of the bigger festivals arround europe and a lot of smaller parties and gatherings arround the globe Iīve personally never had some troubles with dogs so why should I generally have something against them.
Also the most parents that Iīve met with their children were very concious about their responsibility, some years ago in portugal there were some french people (as far as I remember) with a huge truck where they build a kind of kindergarten inside, so that their and their friends children had a safe quiet place to hang around and play, so why should this people be banned?
Just to make safe that people can do their drugs and make other nasty things without beeing disturbed by their bad consience cause by doing that theyīre not fitting the part as a rolemodel?
I donīt really believe that itīs an aim for the majority of people at a festival to get as drunk or as high on drugs as possible and then go to search some children they could frighten. ost of people do this to have some good time with their friends (not everyone knows his/her limits in consuming though)
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 17:40
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@ pavao
Who said anything about people getting drunk or high on drugs searching for kids to frighten? You seem to read things I never said
I said there are many potential dangers for a small kid in a multi-day festival.
And no one is speaking about banning people from going to Festivals - again you read things I never said. I (and others) just ask them to leave their kids and dogs at home (hopefully taken good care of by family or good friends/nanny's)
I have been into this scene for a long long period of time (early 90's) and one thing that always bothered me was the amount of dogs (many time not very clean too and at times also aggressive probably caused by the many people and loud music) and in some cases kids who looked like they were lost (usually they could not find their parents).
Good for you if you never witnessed any annoying dogs or lost kids or any trouble in that direction But I have and I base my opinion on what I have experienced over the years around the globe.
I work with kids and I have had dogs from the day I was born (currently I do not have a dog). But that does not mean I think they belong in such an environment.
www.beatagency.dk |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 17:41
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When did doing drugs become a PART of a festival ? Is this normal one has to ask . |
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Pavao
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
27
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 17:59
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And as for kids on Festivals I simply do not understand those who think it's OK to bring kids to multi-day festivals where (let's face it) a lot of people are off their rockers on various drugs or alcohol. IMO kids do not at all belong in such an environment. Not to forget the very loud music going on 24/7 potentially damaging their fragile ears.
sorry must have missunderstood this part, so what other dangers for children are they that make a difference between a festival and other events ( like Disneyworld, Zoo,...) where there are lots of people and everyday a child gets lost just to be found again?
I`m to old and to much grounded to be naive but still I donīt have such a bad opinion of this whole psy scene and events.
Also one of the best things for me was/is the freedom to do what you want aslong as you donīt disturb other people, so watch your steps and donīt trap into the dogpoo (itīs an animal I donīt blame them not using toilets) and let the children play as long as their parents take care of them if not take take of the parents so they really start taking care of their children.
they should start banning bad music in festivals instead, could help picking the people with healthy attitude to attend the festival and the other problems would be solved
finished for today have a nice time
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 18:17
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@ Pavao
Based on what I have witnessed on Festivals there are a few dangers at Festivals that I do not think would happen in Disneyworld (where there of course are dangers too - life is dangerous).
1. Parents getting lost on drugs or alcohol forgetting they brought their kids. I've seen that happen more than once over the years. Kids are left alone among people who in some cases (for some weird reason) do not seem to bother. In one case I took care of a boy until I found his parents totally fucked up where after I handed him over to some of their friends who was clean - but shocking did not seem to think it was a big deal that the kid was left alone for hours. Today I would not have handed him over to them. I would have called the Authorities.
2. Kids walking away alone into a Forest etc. Usually most Festivals are placed in deserted places far from Towns. It's way easier to find a lost child in Disneyland than having to search example a huge Forest.
3. Kids picking up dropped drugs from the ground not knowing what it is and being a kid and curious eating it (This also goes for dogs).
4. Kids getting confused and scared from all the people with no mom or dad around to comfort them (again with people not even noticing it because they are busy on the floor or tripping away outside the floor). I've seen this happen too.
You speak about freedom to do what you want as long as you do not disturb other people. Then I ask you if it's not to disturb peoples fun and holiday in a Festival with dog poo/pee, aggressive dogs, dirty dogs running wild on the dance-floor and in some cases kids who are lost from tripping parents. I do not go to a Festival to have to deal with such things. I go to have fun and listen to music and meeting GROWN up people. Not to take care of other peoples kids and wanting to shout at dog owners who could not care less about their dogs annoying people and disturbing their experience.
But at the end of the day my concern is for the children and the animals. www.beatagency.dk |
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Pavao
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
27
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 18:31
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@ beatagency
I agree things like that could happen, so there are some bad examples what is possible, still there are way more examples where nothing bad happened thatīs why in my opinion something shouldnīt be forbidden
it sounds like a capitulation for all the conscious people who want to share this part of their life with their children if they donīt have the oportunity to do this just because of some idiots not taking care what theyīre doing
no words more needed to explain my attitude
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 18:36
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I just saw someone wanting to bring their 18 month old Baby to Ozora. That is IMO a crime.
My point is that if you want to bring your kids then wait until they are big enough to at least find their own way back to the tent and ask for help if something is wrong (10+).
And I am sure people can have a great time without their dogs. If they have no way to get them looked after maybe they should not have dogs in the first place. You also do not go on a Holiday bringing the dog or bring your dog to work
I simply do not agree with you and I find it a disgrace that the Organizers do not at least add an appropriate age limit to the Festivals and say no to dogs.
I also find it sad that Organizers does not say no to heavy drugs!
www.beatagency.dk |
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Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
938
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 19:11
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What's the point in having gatherings if people who are wise, conscient and good are limited by rules and proibitions created for those who aren't?
Not a solution IMO
Sérgio Xamanist
facebook.com/xamanist
soundcloud.com/xamanist |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 19:30
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Quote:
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On 2011-07-21 19:11, Xamanist wrote:
What's the point in having gatherings if people who are wise, conscient and good are limited by rules and proibitions created for those who aren't?
Not a solution IMO
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What is the pot in bringing dogs? I have not hear one logic explanation regarding dogs in Festivals.
And does one aim for freedom and free expression also include ruining other peoples right to a good time?
I really do not see any good arguments here. All I see is "my freedom to do as I want to" etc. But usually such a freedom is causing other people grief. www.beatagency.dk |
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Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
938
Posted : Jul 21, 2011 19:39
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a lot of people have dogs and kids and want to go to festivals and so they take them to festivals, as a big happy family, instead of leaving them behind somewhere...
as long as they treat well their kids and their dogs, to their high standards, and don't bother anyone, I can't see any problem... I even find it beautiful 
of course this is not always the case... but this people i would like to meet in a festival!
Sérgio Xamanist
facebook.com/xamanist
soundcloud.com/xamanist |
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