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kick questions
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
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5380
Posted : Mar 20, 2004 17:42
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First, create a stereo group, and put the 'Waves C1 comp sc' plugin on it. Then route the bass track to the group (at maximum volume, ie 0dB on the bass fader) and use a PRE-FADER aux send to get the kick to the same group (at maximum volume, ie 0dB on the aux send), with the bass on one side and the kick on the other - hard left and right. I assume you know how to route an aux send to a group. You can pan the aux send of the kick channel to one side of the group by clicking the 'Send display modes' button above the list of sends to see the routing of each send. This means that the bass goes through the group to the outputs, and the kick goes both through the group, and directly to the outputs - and the level of the kick fader DOES NOT affect the kick level going to the group.
Basically the idea is to use the compressor to reduce the level of the group when the kick drum hits... since the bits inbetween the kicks are uncompressed, the effect of this is that the parts of the bassline that fall at the same time as the kick get reduced in volume compared to their level between kicks... if you see what I mean!
So... you send the tracks to the group in their different ways, panned on opposite sides as I said. Pan the group to the centre so that the kick and bass come out of the group in the centre of the stereo field - ie. the group output is in mono. At this point the group will be outputting both the kick and the bass - the kick will probably seem far too loud. Don't worry!
Set C1 'Key mode' parameter so that the side with the kick is doing the compressING and the side with the bass is being compressED, eg. if you have kick L and bass R, set it to 'L->R'. Now the kick channel will no longer play through the group, and the bass channel will be compressed - not by its own dynamics, but by those of the kick. This is called 'sidechaining', where the dynamics of one sound are controlled by the dynamics of another.
Now you can start compressing. Take the kick fader down to zero so you only hear the bass - don't mute the channel though as this might mute the send too. Set the ratio to about 8:1 and adjust the threshold so the gain-reduction meter shows, say, 12dB of compression - this is a lot but it makes hearing what's going on easier. Make the attack as fast as you can - this means the compressor reacts instantly to the kick. You should now be hearing the bass drop in level every time the kick drum hits. Now adjust the release time so that the bass comes back up in level as soon as possible after the kick has finished; this depends on the shape of the kick, the speed of the bassline and how much 'pumping' you want to hear.
You can try EQing the sidechain by clicking the 'EQ Mode' button on the compressor controls until it says'Sidechain'; the compressor EQ now affects the sidechain (ie the kick drum). You can hear the effect of this by clicking 'Sidechain' button in the 'Monitor' section - you will now hear only the kick. If you take all the bass out of the kick here, the compression on the bass will react faster, as it is now reacting only to the 'click' of the kick. To hear the bass again, click 'Audio' in the monitor section.
Once you have got the bass pumping nicely it's time to balance it with the kick. If you've set things up correctly you can change the levels of the bass (using the group fader) and the kick (using its channel fader) as much as you like without affecting the compression. Set things up so that the level of the bass between kicks is good compared to the kick (I try and aim for maybe 2dB lower than the kick, but it's a matter of taste). Now listen to the level of the bass during the kick drum. If it's too low, you need to reduce the compressor ratio (eg to 6:1); if it's too loud you need to compress more. Try experimenting with the Release control.
And that, my friend, is (as far as I can tell you) how to cross-compress the bass with the kick using Waves C1.
Happy tweaking!
  Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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FluoSamsara (Oxygen)
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
84
Posts :
1164
Posted : Mar 20, 2004 18:34
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Hey thanks Colin  Very interesting information
I'll definetelly give it a try! |
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motorik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
153
Posted : Mar 20, 2004 18:39
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colin where did you got your compressing master degree? colin u r the man!!! 
definitely gonna' give it a try!!!!!
R.E.S.P.E.C.T
salute
motorik
"one good thing about music is when it hits you , you feel no pain" - Bob Marley |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Mar 21, 2004 06:33
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this really good colin ....
i had learnt this when i was doing my sound engg course , but never tried it out !
ur post helped me remember lost forgotten things ....
really good one and nicely explained !
bye and tc ... |
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VBRunner
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
19
Posted : Mar 21, 2004 17:02
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Colin, you are absolutely beautiful. Exactly what I was looking for. That should settle this issue once and for all. Big kudos! |
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C3PO
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
510
Posted : Mar 22, 2004 00:38
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Interesting stuff , until now i was sidechaining bd with bass on
the external mixer (yamaha 01v) but waves sound much better
so i'll give it a try ... |
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Triton
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
171
Posted : Mar 22, 2004 01:35
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 22, 2004 04:53
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zooter
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
771
Posted : Mar 22, 2004 05:37
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hey colin...
good one...thnx |
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Mar 22, 2004 12:00
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Thanx a lot for the info on the side-chaining (happy happy, joy joy !) I have been puzzling a lot on a way to do it in Cubase, but never found a solution. There's another thing that i found to be really helpful: Make your kicks in Soundforge the "infected" way (http://www.infected-mushroom.net/Studio/Html/Kickdrum_Tutorial.htm), but make it in the same tune as your bass-line using the right frequency for the basic wave from the fm-synthesis step (http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html), try frequencies from about 55 Hz upwards. When you're in the last pitchbend-step from the tutorial (in preview-mode), keep your bassline walking alongside in your sequencer to hear if the kickdrum sound you're making fits with your bassline. If it's not okay, change the pitchbend-curve until it's just perfect. When your're satisfied with the result, apply the pitchbend. Then cut the kick you just made to the right length (you can do this right away, but you can also do it in your sampler). Most of the time i let my kicks have the same length as a quarter note (60/bpm). If my track is 142 bpm, the length of the note is around 60/142 = 423 ms. Then use eq to cut the lower part of the bassline, so it's out of the way of the kick. Go kick some ass !! |
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TuK
TuK
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
228
Posted : Mar 22, 2004 12:31
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great thread it really helped me, espesialy collin,
thanx man!!
one more thing though:
does anybody know where to get good kick samples or can suggest on a sample cd good for trance kicks? |
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binary_me
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
226
Posted : Mar 22, 2004 14:01
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Dreamthief
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
47
Posted : Mar 23, 2004 03:00
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Stomper is the killer, but nothing like it for OSX? Anyone know? I need new kicks! Everything I have is the suck!
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zooter
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
771
Posted : Mar 23, 2004 06:26
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Mar 23, 2004 12:30
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Colin, I've read your nice tutorial and it seems to really help.
But I think it's much easier to do with the TC Works compressors.
You just put the sidechainer as an insert on the kick, and the compressor on the bass. Turn on key input and that's it - no need to make sends and groups and stuff.
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