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Kick drums: Generated in real time or Sampled?
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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5292
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 12:07
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I have also made some seriously idiotic statements when I was a n00b, but that's part of being a n00b innit...you pick up on a few things on production and think you know everything. I was no different.
Back on topic:
I do bounce kicks to audio to do things I am unable to do with "MIDI", but the main reason I also keep the audio instrument channel and trigger the kicks in real time is because I almost always tend to tweak them in the final mixdown process to make them sound better/fit whatever scale/bassline riff progression I might go to later in the track and most importantly, after I finish the arrangement, I might change my mind completely on the kick sound I am using/or spend a couple of hours experimenting with new kick sounds I could come up with that would fit the track better...mind you, often enough, this ends up to endlessly tweaking Ultrabeat's parameters to no good fortune.
I have a fast enough computer and it can handle the processing just fine, although I understand why people would want to save up on CPU and get on with bouncing the kick to free up processing power.
Peace out.
 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Thx-1138
IsraTrance Junior Member
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11
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48
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 12:51
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On 2011-04-14 11:46, Vermeee wrote:
lol why dont u all go suck the dick from @DH then ?
but ye i also agree with @willsanquil...try not to piss the people who are tryin to help u mister "george lucas"...
i also use bazzism and use it in realtime...but for kick rolls i tend to use samples coz in bazzism even with polyphone off and midi stop on the rolls tend to stack the dbs........ something that doesnt happen when i convert one kick for the audio and make the rolls with that audio...
maybe its unexperience of me the stack problem but the solution i found was to use it sampled for the rolls... when im not feelin lazy to convert them to audio 
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Yeah I was a little harsh on the guy, but that's just for sake of fun, anyway I think my knowledge increased maybe a 7% after joining the forum, so I kinda know what you guys mean.
Anyway sorry Disco Hooligans. Next time I'll keep my mouth shut.
And whats wrong with George Lucas!?! Maybe Star Wars stinks but THx is a masterpiece, I can watch it everyday.
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
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1069
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 14:35
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lol nothing wrong was just teasin u
yea thx s a very smart and cool movie but too slow for me ....
and i dont think the dude want u to shut the fuck up..just want u to respect ...when we talk bout music the relative s very HUGE there isnt much WRONG OR RIGHT....its all bout what sounds good...something that i learnt here in isratrance...
dont need to shut my friend...
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 15:33
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On 2011-04-14 12:07, disco hooligans wrote:
I have also made some seriously idiotic statements when I was a n00b, but that's part of being a n00b innit...you pick up on a few things on production and think you know everything. I was no different.
Back on topic:
I do bounce kicks to audio to do things I am unable to do with "MIDI", but the main reason I also keep the audio instrument channel and trigger the kicks in real time is because I almost always tend to tweak them in the final mixdown process to make them sound better/fit whatever scale/bassline riff progression I might go to later in the track and most importantly, after I finish the arrangement, I might change my mind completely on the kick sound I am using/or spend a couple of hours experimenting with new kick sounds I could come up with that would fit the track better...mind you, often enough, this ends up to endlessly tweaking Ultrabeat's parameters to no good fortune.
I have a fast enough computer and it can handle the processing just fine, although I understand why people would want to save up on CPU and get on with bouncing the kick to free up processing power.
Peace out.
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Of course, the other argument for bouncing the kick down is that its good to commit to a sound rather than have it as something which can be tweaked ad infinitum for no real benefit outside of just having it sound different.
Personally, I don't work that way - I like having the thing there and fully tweakable, but I know of other people who swear by just getting on with it.
The downside to having the instrument tweakable is that if you do a spectacular fill with a kick drum where you bounced it down to do something non midi and then later decide to tweak the drum then you are in a situation where the fills are with a different kick drum - so I've found I'm kinda tied into writing all fills at the end of the track when I'm creatively done with the track and have to really dig very deep indeed to come up with good fills. This also affects how I write, because I never write around the fills - which I don't like at all, the fills are extraneous ... all of which means my music doesn't feature a lot of fills.  And a bit of get up and go.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 16:30
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On 2011-04-14 15:33, Speakafreaka wrote:
The downside to having the instrument tweakable is that if you do a spectacular fill with a kick drum where you bounced it down to do something non midi and then later decide to tweak the drum then you are in a situation where the fills are with a different kick drum - so I've found I'm kinda tied into writing all fills at the end of the track when I'm creatively done with the track and have to really dig very deep indeed to come up with good fills. This also affects how I write, because I never write around the fills - which I don't like at all, the fills are extraneous ... all of which means my music doesn't feature a lot of fills. And a bit of get up and go.
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I know it sucks....although I don't do many kick fills in our tunes + I tend to put them fills through some modulation delay plug in which changes the kick sound somewhat anyway, so I don't really worry about re-doing them with a new kick.
It can be very frustrating tho when someone makes music with shit loads of kick fills...being a perfectionist requires a lot of time. Personally I can't be bothered that much.
Peace.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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1069
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 16:34
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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779
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 16:40
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Things you can't really program in MIDI or automation without seriously massive effort - plugins that are expensive on RAM for example but sound great ... one shot FX pings, buffer overrides, or things that are quasi random where you get one time from a string 20 useless ones, where just that once it sounds great.
Glitch out on kick drums at the end of a 16 bar pattern (for the love of everything please not every 16 bars!)
Having said that ... there are increasingly good options for real time glitchage depending on how much time you want to put into it.
NI's 'The Finger' springs to mind big time, where a bank of different glitches can be built up which are Midi note triggered. May have to give this a go. I own it but must fess up to preset bashing with it.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
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1069
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 17:01
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ow okaaaaaaaaa kick fills like effects in the kick in some parts of the track to give some randoness for the track...
i think thats what i understood as kick fills  anyway
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
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779
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 17:20
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Yeah - thing is with keeping it in MIDI is that they can all sound a bit 'bolted on' rather than part of the tune, which if you are running with audio, because your hands are more tied on tweaking the kick drum, you are freer to make very complex effects and build the tune around them.
To my mind at least, but I suspect mileage will vary considerably here.
Been fiddling with the finger for the last half hour, and I think this provides a pretty good half way house between the two. Definitely easier to work with this in real time than glitch.
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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Djones
IsraTrance Senior Member
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267
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1766
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 21:30
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On 2011-04-13 20:30, PoM wrote:
yesterday i suprised myself tweaking a eq that was in bypass mode..
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Lol, I've had this sooo many times.
And then to find out when you un-bypass it, you totally screwed up your equalization and can't get it back to where it was before your bypassed the damn thing |
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Plasmorh
IsraTrance Junior Member
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49
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559
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 21:44
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On 2011-04-13 15:50, Thx-1138 wrote:
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On 2011-04-13 15:12, NychroLogic wrote:
you mean you swaped from synth to sample?
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Yes, I made my own kick on Bazzism and selected the option Export as Audio. This created an audio file of my kick, now ready to be used.
And this basically makes the combo more consistent so Br0d was right.
This could help somebody else too.
Thanks.
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dude, just generate a low freq sine wave with bazzism... making a vuuuuuuuuuuuuuum sound...
export it as u said
and then just play around with it, with pitch shift without time correction (cubase) and ull have 100% more control on how ur kick will get
I want a spare brain.... or 2. |
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Chimp in Space
IsraTrance Junior Member
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29
Posts :
86
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 23:24
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On 2011-04-13 17:49, willsanquil wrote:
Bazzism can be triggered in real time without any of the issues your friend brought up.
Also, in the future try not to piss on the people who are trying to help you?
You're coming here for advice yet when advice is given by people who DO know what they're talking about you demean them and quote someone whose advice you've already taken?
Doesn't make any sense to me. If you already know whats best why ask the question.
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+1
People are strange........when you'r a stranger
Peace
https://soundcloud.com/chimp-in-space/chimp-in-space-chords-1 |
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makus
Overdream
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82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Apr 14, 2011 23:53
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On 2011-04-13 16:43, Thx-1138 wrote:
Again I'll quote Br0d. Now let's pretend we are in kindergarten.
What is Bazzism kids? A drum Synth!
What is a synth? A Synthesizer!
What does it do kids? It generates kicks real time!
What happends if you generate kicks in real time? It's not consistent!
How do we fix that kids? WE SAMPLE IT! YAY!
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what i would advice to mister Thx-1138 is to go and create a new project, load precious Bazzizm, copy and paste 10 minutes of kick drums, export them, import the file back to the project, invert the phase, play the VST and the audio together and see if it nulls out.
if you see NOTHING - the vst works the same as audio. if NOT - it is not.
before being a smart ass please RTFM
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
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431
Posted : Apr 15, 2011 02:33
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when i use bazzism, it (surprisingly) sometimes emits barely audible crackling at the beginning of something like every fifth kick. so i'll sample kicks from bazzism (even though it's not really necessary. if there's something else playing at the time you cannot hear the difference).
with zebra generated kicks, i've got no such problems, so i'll just use them real time.
+1 to tweaking a bypassed eq. that one's a classic ;-) |
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