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Kick & Bass group compression `gel`
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makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 14:51
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Klip, yeah, thats a trick called 'new york style compression'. Though I understand that this trick is much older and more popular then the gold rays, I still want to elaborate - you don't need a mix knob on a compressor to use it, because any host has send/aux channels. I like to use Waves RComp compressor, for example (btw this is one of my favourite compressors of all times, even though I have UAD's Firechild, LA2A, 1176 and many other stuff).
So, put a compressor to send/aux.
Basically what you want to do is to send all drums, including hats, and bass to this send. Though I create a drums and bass group channel track first and throw one of its sends to our compressor.
After that enable prefader on this send and turn the volume of the subgroup all the way down, so you can hear the woking compressor only. Apply the most agressive parameters you can (something like -50 threshold; 8:1 ratio, fast atack and release). You should hear a compressed mess on this point  Then mix the send and the original signal in proportion you like.
This trick can be enhanced with added eq on the send channel - eg cut the big ammount of mids leaving bass and highs only. Experiment here and you will get something fat.
Personally I didn't ever use this trick in psy production. I feel it is more suitable to rock kind of music. I like when my kick and bass are clean.
 
www.overdreamstudio.com |
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 14:59
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makus,
i know ny compression is coming from a different style of music, and personally i would not do this with hats and snares and so on in psy.
but doing that with just a kick bass group as i said does sound very clean and can potentially glue them and sound nice.. although i do not use the most extremne settings. more of a say 10:1 ratio and -20 db thresh with relatively fast (not ultrafast) attack/release..) mixed in 10-30%
and yeah well, a comp with a mix knob makes life easier than using busses ;-)
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 16:09
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you can try to experiment sending both to a compressor for parralel compression and pre or post the compressor use a eq (you can go crazy there, using a hp/lp filter to choose what frequency range you ll mix with the original dry signal, or boosting the low and high for example ...lot of things to try with the eq to faten the beat)
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 21:10
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thx to all the input fellas. makes better sense now.
even though my kick&bass sounds good enough to leave it.
i still like what piko described;
that subtle (<1 db) reduction to add little warmth (depends on compressor) and cohesiveness between them.
i aslo reason that with accurate att&rel settings they will swing better together. even if you can hardly hear it.
and in areas of the song the bass changes drastically,, it will still carry little of that same swing.
thx again
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 22:09
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jun 29, 2010 22:35
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how does it work?
is it for sidechaining? or do you use it on a kick bass group.
my bass is already sidechained to kick. but also grouped to a single channel.
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 02:15
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 03:56
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 04:30
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dj chichke
Chichke
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
705
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 04:33
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-29 22:09, Colin OOOD wrote:
Dagan from Misted Muppet showed me a trick for this a few years ago and it's served me well ever since, for giving the kick + bass just a certain little something. Obviously you need to get the sounds right and balanced in the first place but this works nicely.
It's very simple indeed: Waves C1sc with the Bass Enhancer II preset.
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i tried it now. it's sounds good but it raise the bass volume as hell.
it's very wired after i decreased 2db from the output of the compressor the level of the kickbass group as group became equal to the level of the group without the compressor. but the level of bassline alone with compressor on the group is higher than without compressor on the group. and same for the kick. how is it possible? |
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Cadent
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
11
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 13:48
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Realistically, in terms of production, use velocity to adjust the dynamics of your midi performance so you can avoid the use of compression on a regular basis.
Generally speaking I only use compression on groups for necessity, in order to achieve tone, there are a too many ways to tame your peaks when working with midi that you should only use compression as a tone and never to restrict the dynamics of your performance (unless that's your intended effect).
That said, compressing a kick + bass layer on a buss can help cement them together, basically I use a pretty quick attack for this scenario (10-30ms) and a release of anywhere between 30ms-100ms depending on the vibe of the tune. I'll adjust the thresh so there's only about a dB or two in terms of gain reduction, and then I'll adjust the ratio and knee if necessary (it usually is).
Compression is a tool to restrict dynamics more than anything else, don't fall into the habit of using it to cut corners, it'll leave your tune sounding overly dry if you're not careful.
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
546
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 15:47
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 16:00
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ferric tds is indeed nice!
bbe d82 sonix maximizer is also good for that.. as well as being the shizzle for baselines all the time!
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons |
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jun 30, 2010 19:57
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-30 15:47, -aeon- wrote:
one of my favourite kick&bass 'glue' plugins is Ferric TDS, by bootsy. you can find it here:
http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/ferrictds-released-today-withi-the-kvr-dc09/
it emulates the compression and distortion characteristics of tape. i've never worked with analog tape, so i have no idea how realistic it is; but that's irrelevant. the point is that it can give you a wonderful subtle feeling of 'togetherness' on a kick/bass group.
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and its FREE.
i use that TeslaSE on the bass sometimes.
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jul 1, 2010 01:37
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-30 15:47, -aeon- wrote:
one of my favourite kick&bass 'glue' plugins is Ferric TDS, by bootsy. you can find it here:
http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/ferrictds-released-today-withi-the-kvr-dc09/
it emulates the compression and distortion characteristics of tape. i've never worked with analog tape, so i have no idea how realistic it is; but that's irrelevant. the point is that it can give you a wonderful subtle feeling of 'togetherness' on a kick/bass group.
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i love this plug on bassline with extreme settings , it saturate great ! |
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