| Author
|
Kick & Bass group compression `gel`
|
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jun 27, 2010 10:39:37
|
So,
i`ve read about sending(grouping) kick & bass to a single channel to compress them together to better gel.
I can comprehend how this will work. (for, i know what compression does)
My problem is that i`m compression deaf.
It is important for me to get the Attack & Release setting in rhythm with the flow.
sometimes with high compression ratio it is easy for me to detect how the compressed sounds breath and pump with music and adjust accordingly with sweet effect.
I need some wisdom here. to better listen for, and adjust attack and release settings for SUBTLE gel of kick&bass group channel.
(hoping for some advice from producers i have big respect for, eg. disco hooligans )
anyone with a clue.
please give some input.
*don`t ask me to define the word `gel`
|
|
|
daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 27, 2010 13:49
|
|
Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Jun 27, 2010 15:10
|
I personally never use a single compressor over kick and bass. To "glue" together, they just have to fit. The kick sample and the combination of bass patch and notes (and bpm, and bass melody, etc. etc.). Sidechaining. Tuning root frequency of the kick, to fit the bass, and so on.
Also, other drum sounds (hats, snares, percs etc.) can glue a lot of other things together very effectively (btw, for other drums sounds it's very good to use a group compression or other fx.)
Shortly, i wouldn't recommend you to think about kick and bass as about something isolated. They work with the other layers of your track. If they don't fit, only some very radical group processing can glue them together, but that is not what you need i suppose.
 http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
|
|
|
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jun 27, 2010 16:01
|
Quote:
|
Shortly, i wouldn't recommend you to think about kick and bass as about something isolated. They work with the other layers of your track. If they don't fit, only some very radical group processing can glue them together, but that is not what you need i suppose.
|
|
i hear what you say. only that i`ve read something different,- that they should work closely together, kick and bass.
maybe i make to big deal out of it.
its only about music i think you suppose.
tell me yes and i`ll leave it there
it fits semi-good.
I can post a sample if you like,, only if it would help you to help me better.
i need some pro recommendations on how to glue them better together on a group channel with compression.
let me ask it different
IF you want to really hear(and feel) if your ATTACK & RELEASE settings is good,, do you.
a) set extreme ratios
b) set extreme threshold
i want to set the Attack and Release with the flow while i can hear it,(extreme settings),
then after set the ratio or(threshold) so i only reduce a little DB.( 1 or 2) of compression.
|
|
|
|
naretir
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
207
Posted : Jun 27, 2010 17:05
|
|
piko_bianko
Oxya
Started Topics :
57
Posts :
974
Posted : Jun 27, 2010 17:13
|
i've read, seen, tried and listened to many various techniques concerning kick/bass group compression in order to glue them together.
i'll skip analyzing all processes and results, and i'll just point out the simplest and most efficient (to me) technique.
in order to maintain original dynamics, on an already nice sounding kick/bass combo, i used to (and still do it many times) put a compressor in the group channel, setting a medium ratio (eg. 3) and threshold set to that much that results to a minor reduction (eg. just 0.1 to 0.3 db)
atk: 10 rls:30 (i figured out these don't mean much on this subject but i still set similar values)
now, although heavy compression wasn't present at all, kick/bass sounded indeed different and somehow glued together. couldn't explain why, but shared this -simpliest- technique around to fellow co-workers and mixing engineers, and in electronic music producers as well.
comments were either positive or just neutral (eg. ok it did nothing)
after using several compressors trying the best of results, i noticed that sometimes (using some compressors) this trick didn't work at all.
what's really happening ?
finally the trick was simple, and now clear to all of us. this only works using colouring compressors, and compressors emulating analog circuits.
clean compressors don't do anything.
analog (hardware), digital (analog-like) and colouring compressors process both signals as one and give a tight and warm feeling to both sounds.
it's like using a tube processor, or even tape to give warmth to the signal.
so, rounding it up. you HAVE to adjust kick and bass levels by yourself, they won't be set automatically. and you HAVE to choose your favourite analog/analog-like compressor to give warmth to your group.
ps. the example above stands only if you want to keep original dynamics to your mix. if you're interested on a more fuzzy type of output, there are several 100% efficient techniques, making heavy use of the group compressor. cheers 
extreme |
|
|
|
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Jun 27, 2010 17:52
|
^piko.
i appreciate your honest post very much.
respect
|
|
|
|
dija
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
483
Posted : Jun 27, 2010 21:27
|
|
orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 00:56
|
i pretty much dont use compression.. on kick and bass.
i do it with envelope and eq.. only if its really necessary i will add a compressor.
although you can add a compressor to a kick/bass bus channel for that glue effect.. i dont cos if i want some time some of them to play alone the level changes.
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
|
|
|
makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 01:46
|
don't forget the fact that most of the people who insist on compressing drums, bass or their summing group are talking about live acoustic drums played by the real player. which means that the volume of kick, snare, hats and other parts are chaning (a little or heavily) with each hit. putting the compressor is essencial in this case. even if the player is super pro and plays very flat.
when we are talking about electronic music we face the situation when the kick is the one and only sample that constantly plays with the one and only velocity. compression isn't really necessary there.
www.overdreamstudio.com |
|
|
|
orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 01:49
|
Quote:
|
On 2010-06-28 01:46, makus wrote:
don't forget the fact that most of the people who insist on compressing drums and bass aòâ åðóøê summing group are talking about live acoustic drums played by the real player. which means that the volume of kick, snare, hats and other parts are chaning (a little or heavily) with each hit.putting the compressor is essencial in this situation. even if the player is super pro and plays very flat.
when we are talking about electronic music we face the situation when the kick is only 1 sample that constantly plays with 1 and only velocity. compression isn't really necessary there.
|
|
exactly...
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
|
|
|
makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 01:50
|
sure if we put he compressor to kick + bass group we will hear changes. but this isn't the same as in acoustic music.
piko said it all - just use something that colors, if you want. plain digital compression is basically pointless in our situation.
www.overdreamstudio.com |
|
|
|
makus
Overdream
Started Topics :
82
Posts :
3087
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 01:52
|
|
daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 09:10
|
after real methods
could put a compressor with very high threshold
short attack and release ,not too short, and small ratio...u could also use a multiband or transient
as long as after u aplying them it is better
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
|
|
|
klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Jun 28, 2010 14:18
|
nicely put together so far in this thread thanks to our blue names..
sometimes though, a compressor with rather agressive settings can also be nice on the kick/bass group when it has a mix knob (e.g. the precision bus compressor, urs channel strip pro etc).
you just mix 10-30% of the compressed signal into the dry signal.. gives a tight, nicely glued sound without removing the overall dynamics..
or try sticking the oxford inflator on the bass/kick group for nice colouring as well (however and whatever this plugin does after all..)
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons |
|
|
|
