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Kick and bass question
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 19, 2009 16:23:23
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sorry for another topic regarding these complicated lo Freq elements.
my question is do i still or can i eq out peaks where my kick drum wants to be despite them not falling on the same time.
iz it still necerserry to eq out of kick and bass to make them fit for example my kick is sub heavy peaks at 40hz, but my bassline is is E1 which would mean it fundimentle freQ is @ 42hz... so then i have i got to make a choice of which one is worthy of this 40hz area... so i choose kick, i then take an a narro notch out of by bass @ 40hz and any other peaks that may clash with kick.
why do u still have to work this way to make them fit even though my bass and kick dont fall on the beat?.
o and which part of Bazzism is the main tune of the kick
thanks
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Mar 19, 2009 16:36
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40hz is a very low area to chose your kick to sit at, although I have made kicks that are subheavy when they shouldn't.
the question is, does it sound good to your ears?
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 19, 2009 16:41
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i know mate i know, the main point why do i have to make room for each peak on each element to make them fit, even tho they dont fall on the same beat k
b = no k b = yes
lol do u see what im sayin? i spose it would have to do with release envelope?
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Mar 19, 2009 17:04
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make sure your kick and bassnote lenght are short enough in your midi editor (i.e. 1/16th). after that, make sure the release of the kick and the bass patch is fast enough so that you have as little as possible decaying kick tail of audio overlapping with the bassline (in case you are doing the typical 16th bassline pattern with no bass coinsiding with the kick trigger).
I don't know what kick sample, drum synth you are using to generate your kick, but bare in mind that if you are making a tune in a very fast tempo (i.e. 145+) you need to make sure you leave enough of the kick sample play, so that you don't leave out the bottom end.
Basically try this...get a phat kick audio file and drop it in your arrangement. Zoom in and look at the region, depending on your tempo, the audio region will be longer than 1/16th of a bar. That means that it will overlap with the bassnote that you have (for a kbbb pattern) on the next 16th.
Now shorten the kick audio region to exactly 1/16th. Have you lost all the bottom end?
You need to use very specific kick samples that are short enough and contain enough bottom end, fast enough, or you will end up with overlapping bass frequencies from your kick and your bassline, even if your midi editor tells you otherwise.
So here is where you have to start EQing things accordingly and start thinking about sidechaining the kick to the bassline so that you can at least drop the level of your bassline, for as long as the kick is playing, to help make things more defined.
My fastest tunes are 142, yet I do get some overlapping bottom end from the kick and bassline and always try to sort it out, as I haven't been able to make a kick that is short enough, yet contain enough bottom end, as simply editing the kick lenght to 1/16, strips all the bottom end out of my kick and there is no way of boosting some bottom end back in, as there is none to boost in the first place.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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jizy
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Posted : Mar 19, 2009 17:08
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ok mate, il bare all that in mind
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~d2~
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 19, 2009 19:32
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40Hz is very difficult to judge in untreated room. |
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 20, 2009 01:27
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-19 19:32, ~d2~ wrote:
40Hz is very difficult to judge in untreated room.
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in spekral graph it isnt, and 250 qid heaphones it isnt
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Cuboidatom
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Posted : Mar 20, 2009 13:47
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-20 01:27, jizy wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-03-19 19:32, ~d2~ wrote:
40Hz is very difficult to judge in untreated room.
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in spekral graph it isnt, and 250 qid heaphones it isnt
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It's harder with headphones because bass doesn't develop properly due to the speaker being so close to your ear. It is a well known fact that it is near impossible to judge bass properly on headphones no matter how good they are how low they go... |
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~d2~
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 20, 2009 17:27
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Who needs monitors or good room acoustics or headphones or even ears when you have spekral graph
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Inner Demon
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Posted : Mar 20, 2009 18:04
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-20 13:47, Cuboidatom wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-03-20 01:27, jizy wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-03-19 19:32, ~d2~ wrote:
40Hz is very difficult to judge in untreated room.
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in spekral graph it isnt, and 250 qid heaphones it isnt
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It's harder with headphones because bass doesn't develop properly due to the speaker being so close to your ear. It is a well known fact that it is near impossible to judge bass properly on headphones no matter how good they are how low they go...
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He's right, you can use headphones for reference but I would never use them to shape the low end, no matter how expensive they are. |
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 20, 2009 18:15
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-20 17:27, ~d2~ wrote:
Who needs monitors or good room acoustics or headphones or even ears when you have spekral graph
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they dont lie
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Mar 20, 2009 19:49
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D.H.P.
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Posted : Mar 20, 2009 19:59
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What about lowering the velocity of the first bass note after the kick? So it looks something like this:
KbBB
That way you can let the kick go slightly longer than 1/16. Long enough to get the low end on the kick yet not clash with the bass. It's sort of the same as side chaining. Gives your bass line a groove to is also.
Route both the kick and bass to one audio channel, record it for at least one bar and then analyze the wave form the see if your clipping. There should be a slight space between the wave form of your kick and first bass note. Maybe you even have enough room to lengthen the kick a little more.
I have questions about the wave form of kick and bass together: What is the relation in waveform size of the kick vs the bass? Should the kick be even in volume to the bass? or should the kick be louder or softer than the bass? |
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Freeflow
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Posted : Mar 20, 2009 20:40
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"I have questions about the wave form of kick and bass together: What is the relation in waveform size of the kick vs the bass? Should the kick be even in volume to the bass? or should the kick be louder or softer than the bass?"
often the kick is a little higher due to the peak at the start of the kick...
otherwise its a matter of taste, nothing is wrong, i mean you could theoretically have the bass as kick and the kick as bass  BkkkBkkkBkkkB but i guess the bass would still be bass and the kick would still be kick 
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D.H.P.
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Posted : Mar 20, 2009 23:56
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On 2009-03-20 20:40, Freeflow wrote:
"I have questions about the wave form of kick and bass together: What is the relation in waveform size of the kick vs the bass? Should the kick be even in volume to the bass? or should the kick be louder or softer than the bass?"
often the kick is a little higher due to the peak at the start of the kick...
otherwise its a matter of taste, nothing is wrong, i mean you could theoretically have the bass as kick and the kick as bass BkkkBkkkBkkkB but i guess the bass would still be bass and the kick would still be kick
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Cool, Thanks. |
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