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Kick and Bass position
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NEBULOsity
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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78
Posted : Aug 30, 2013 09:13:09
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I am sure that this topic was already discussed somewhere but I want to revive this topic and get some news. So my main question is where do you guys place kick and bass in frequency spectrum. If your bass and kick are almost in the same frequency or is bass a little bit lower or higher and mainly why do you do that and what kind of problems come out from this position. (frequency overlapping, less power, etc.)
Thx for your opinions and advices and forgive me my poor english  |
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
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33
Posted : Aug 30, 2013 09:32
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Hey nebulosity 
when i make my kick and bass i dont look so much on the frequency. for me it is better to hear if it sounds good or not.
when it doesn't sound good, I tweak the bass in my synth the best that i can, that it fits with my kick. after this it only needs little bit of EQ to cut some frequencies that i dont won't and sound bad.
hope it helps you little bit.
 http://soundcloud.com/iamdelic/w-a-d-vap-gr |
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freakattack
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 30, 2013 09:49
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Ajja tricks
kick = cut below 50hz
bass = cut below 50hz & reduce around 250hz to fit kick
synth = cut below 500hz
drum & percussion loops = cut below 500hz
hihat & cymbals = cut below 4000hz
psychedelic sounds (fx) = cut below 4000hz
http://soundcloud.com/freakattack |
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 30, 2013 09:57
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Ajja cuts quite heavily. I wouldnt really cut so much from the bottom.
kick = cut below 30hz
bass = cut below 30hz & reduce around 250hz to fit kick
synth = cut below 125hz
drum & percussion loops = cut below 125hz (depends on the loop)
hihat & cymbals = cut below 4000hz
psychedelic sounds (fx) = cut below 125hz (depends on the sound)
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 30, 2013 16:03
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kick = cut below 50Hz (reduce around 500hz)
bass = cut below 30Hz (can be higher, depends) & reduce around 250hz to fit kick
synth = cut below 125hz-250Hz
drum & percussion loops = cut below 200Hz (if your snare or toms go there, otherwise...) (depends on the loop)
hihat & cymbals = make sure you cut the lows if there are any and just take away nasty sounding frequencies!
psychedelic sounds (fx) = cut below 125Hz-300Hz (depends on Bass frequencies, mostly!)
my take on it! nothing to take as gospel, trully depends a lot on the sound design!!
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NEBULOsity
IsraTrance Junior Member
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26
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78
Posted : Aug 30, 2013 16:10
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Yes I absolutely agree. It mostly depends on situation and sound but when you are talking about cut frequencies I would like to ask if you rather use cut filter or low shelf when you are removing unwanted frequencies?
https://soundcloud.com/nebulosity |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Aug 30, 2013 17:49
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 30, 2013 19:14
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is it really common to cut every single element? I like to cut each chanell but not kick and bass, sometimes kick it sounds better though /4 me/
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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knocz
Moderator
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Posted : Aug 30, 2013 23:07
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Quote:
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On 2013-08-30 19:14, TimeTraveller wrote:
is it really common to cut every single element? I like to cut each chanell but not kick and bass, sometimes kick it sounds better though /4 me/
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Each element should have it's place in the mix, and one common way many use is to tame each one and place (EQ) it to it's specific place. I do that all the time, but nothing is rigid as gold, everything can be bent (you are the spoon, Neo).
That said, some elements should have the privilege of filling in the low end, however you always want the control over how much. Typically in psytrance, your kick + bass bus should have this task, but when the beat isn't playing I like to open up the LP on one of the main elements, so the tune has some low end during the beat break (and switch on the LP when the beat comes back).
Nevertheless, even with the beat occupying the low end, usually the synths will reproduce really low frequencies (say, under 40 Hz), and although you want some energy here too much can be overwhelming -> when the PA speakers start dancing it's way over time to lower this sub bass. Usually we LP the kick and the bass to have full control of until which frequencies the sub energy is focused, and how much energy is actually focusing.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but lower frequencies take more energy for a speaker to reproduce, so taming out really heavy subs can help the speakers flow more naturally and allow more power to the rest of the mix.
Also have in mind that some samples might already had some EQ processing on it, and they might already be LP cut, so cutting out the subs again might make it sound worse.
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 30, 2013 23:22
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Thanks for your good statment knocz. I also like to shape with lp often just for the spot of sound, especialy at bassline. I know low energies are huge energies and take out lots of (head)room but I often got the feeling that it lacks something when I cut at kick or bass and than those elements loose important information. Just wondering seems like all people cut those elements.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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COMET SHELL
IsraTrance Junior Member
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50
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577
Posted : Aug 31, 2013 01:46
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if you dont cut the right amounth off the lower frequs it will sound bad on a big sound system. |
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TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 31, 2013 10:33
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Eq is my favourite plug in, nothing else is such a tool. I have also my most often used numbers  like sends for reverb and delay lowcut over 1000 Hz etc but that is better from hearing and it can vary. Almost all channels have low and high cuts though.Most often all apart K&B. Just kick and bass sounds not really worse in a big room with good monitors.
Maybe on a big field with pa boxes is something else. But I think when you seperate the frequencies it should not be a problem if the speakers are ok because there are speakers that go that low and are able to reproduce that response.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Sep 1, 2013 00:00
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@TimeTraveller
I think the biggest issue here is that these very low frequencies don't add that much to the mix, but in fact can take away some energy (headrooism and indeed the woofer cones have a hard job breathing naturaly, so to speak). Besides, we're not exactly talking "brickwall filter" here, but choosing some high pass filter with a slope of choice, that allows those frequencies to exist, but actually controlls the levels.
what I think is a good guide line for such decisions is: you need to focus on where your fundamental frequencies are, and controll the excessive rumble on the subs. two things: sometimes low shelf filter sounds much more natural then a simple high pass filter (knocz was saying LP, think that's a typo, no?). and if you feel that the filter is creating nasty artifacts, you can decide to use linear phase EQ instead - but I'd do that later on mixing stage, because it does create some latency and requires more cpu power.
besides, there's a lot of times you can get away with no EQ at all, really depends on the sounds themselves and how they play together  |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
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Posted : Sep 1, 2013 14:42
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Quote:
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On 2013-09-01 00:00, frisbeehead wrote:
what I think is a good guide line for such decisions is: you need to focus on where your fundamental frequencies are, and controll the excessive rumble on the subs. two things: sometimes low shelf filter sounds much more natural then a simple high pass filter (knocz was saying LP, think that's a typo, no?). and if you feel that the filter is creating nasty artifacts, you can decide to use linear phase EQ instead - but I'd do that later on mixing stage, because it does create some latency and requires more cpu power.
besides, there's a lot of times you can get away with no EQ at all, really depends on the sounds themselves and how they play together
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YEah,I meant HP sorry, and thanks for pointing that out.
Also, great pointers on the Low Shelf, it can really give a more natural sound to the eq instead of cutting out the frequencies - But on some point during my tunes the mix will go through a "master" LP filter, even it it's just cutting from 20 / 40 Hz, because to me lower frequencies than that are unwanted.
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Sep 1, 2013 14:58
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