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Posted : Dec 25, 2012 15:25:24
Good day
My question is more of a general one, regarding kick and bass.. however I'm looking for more of a 'personal experience' with how you do (or would recommend) making, or going about creating a certain sound
I listen to a lot of the Tesseract Studios guys.. (Flegma, Zyce, Nerso, Sideform, E-Clip, etc) I LOVE everything that comes from them!
Now, my question is, how do these guys get 'that' kick and bass sound? Regardless of taste, frequency-wise, it seems to roll so perfectly in the ~100hz-250hz range (even though there is so much in that area), while the high-end is just clicking on top. The kick sounds like it becomes part of the bass, giving this constant flow with no gaps, and the sub frequencies just compliment the whole thing so nicely by being very audible, but not too much.. again I'm referring to the frequency spectrum when I say 'a flow'. All there stuff is always so clean yet so full.. and the more the leads and percussion start filling up the track, the bass starts becoming thicker and thicker (however I understand this is the natural compression occurring as the spectrum becomes fuller), which is probably due to it sounding good on its own.
Multiband compression (in my opinion) is obviously the answer.. and I am getting closer to what I want the more I experiment, but still not quite there yet. To give a few examples :
E-Clip - Existence
Zyce & Flegma - Fun Gun
Martin - Intoxicated (Zyce Remix)
Flegma & Nerso - Angel Eyes
In no way am I saying I want to sound exactly like these guys, that is probably the biggest mistake everyone makes, and I am not saying that they are the only guys that make this kind of music, I am merely in search of new techniques to making a decent rolling bass without going overboard with the BPM (as many people tend to use the tempo as a easy way to create a pumping bass.. I stay around 136bpm)
At the moment, I am sticking with Sylenth1 as it is the smoothest and most versatile VST I have ever heard - and I am sure many will agree
Multiband compressor with fine-tweaked x-over points? Expansion on some bands, compression on the other? Automation in any form?? :/ Anything that anyone can add, will be greatly appreciated
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Dec 25, 2012 15:57
Its easier to get a bigger bottom end at low BPM, longer bass note and kick length.
I don't hear anything special in them tracks, standard kick and single saw bassline.
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Posted : Dec 25, 2012 16:09
Yea I understand that, but its not really bottom-end as such that I'm looking for.. but rather a continuous flow
I'm not saying that a multiband IS the answer.. but being able to control the dynamics of certain bands separately from the rest to achieve what I am hearing is my logic behind it
I agree, there is definitely nothing special going on, simple sine kicks and single saw bass yes.. but its just so perfect haha
Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Dec 25, 2012 16:20
Try to work your synth programming to get that bass "chug". The examples sound plastic, so Sylenth is a good starting point as it is a plastic sounding synth, yet a very bold one. The simple EQ and broad band compression can get you them results. The flow comes from programming the right kick, so that the bottom end is like a machine gun on all four 16ths of each beat and does not stop on the first 16th where the kick triggers. Tuning the kick to the fundamental frequency and getting a very fast decay of the pitch envelope to quickly get to the sustained "boom" of the kick that is tuned to the same freqyency as the bassline, gets you that result.
A great bassline is nothing without a great kick to go with it.
Alien Bug
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Posted : Dec 25, 2012 16:29
if I understand correctly this is not a MB compressor issue. It's just your ear/mind case. When there is more events in music, then our brains receive sounds as fuller. enough that simple synth start to play on bass frequencies and you will hear a fuller sounding bass. try to focus only on bass, switch off other sounds (in your mind)in any track from above and you will hear that bass is still the same
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snowdogg
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Posted : Dec 25, 2012 22:27
synthesizing kicks is good as nectarios said.
you should look into multiband processing, but i think compression isnt at the top of the list!, try some stereo tricks/reverb/chorus/bitcrush etc on the highs maby:)
also there was a cool tutorial someone posted here on prog bass where he duplicated the bass channel with amp decay rly fast, so your left with a click sound, and blended that in.
or maby add a subby sinewave to beef it up.
peace! happy christmas!:)
Taisto
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Posted : Dec 25, 2012 23:20
I like these kind of tracks too, but i keep wondering more mid/high side which is often very clean and roomy, so nicely mixed. Bass part is more boring than exciting, because its just a same set there from beginning to end.
Of course basses in these are well mixed too, and rolling nicely as they should. I would look more closely EQ settings from Kick and Bass after you find *right* sounds to them. Kick should be in tune with bass and given those low end 30-50 hz freqs. Bass could take 55-75, and kick again 80- something, and so on. And cutting more than boosting, picking up those rolling harmonics with a proper EQ. Compression, sidechaining and harmonic saturation or somthing else dirty and hypnotic staff is important too.
And then you could try to glue kick and bass even more together in their own group channel where you add something special, like bbe sonic maximizer, sonnox inflator, more EQ, more compression, and so on.
Just the matter of taste actually, you should try to combine your own soundscape from low end to high end more than trying to copy something from other soundscape that can be totally unsuitable in your soundscene. Trust that you know your ears and mind better than others.
Something i like these proge tracks is those truely well picked and tuned sounds wich are fitting a track very balanced way from low end to highs and they sound very precisely adjusted. At least in that 'Flegma & Nerso - Angel Eyes' - example.
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Lucidity
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Posted : Dec 26, 2012 10:41
@Nectarios : Yea I understand that its better to always fix your sound at the source first, before trying with EQ or such. I've noticed that even the slightest change on anything in the synth (envelopes especially) can make the EQing I've added be completely off. And yea most of the time simple EQing is all thats needed providing you get the synth 'correct'.. but then I always end up doing 'just a small' tweak here and there and before I know it.. its EQ madness haha! "A great bassline is nothing without a great kick to go with it" - Definitely agree with this! Hell, I've added hats and snares that have made the kick or bass sound 'wrong' haha! Contrast
@Snowdogg : I have a ridiculous amount of samples, many many different ones that I hear in basically all the tracks I listen to, and very clean sine kicks.. and also a lot of weird ones :/ haha so for me I don't see the need to synthesize more.. but I wont rule it out, who knows, maybe that's the answer? I tried single-band compression on a project now and as expected it gave me a completely different sound (abit closer to what I'm going for), but lost some of the magic I get from multiband compression.. sooooo I used a bit of both Yea okes definitely use bitcrusher a lot... A LOT! Been thinking about some stereo tricks too.. just so scared of loosing the definition.. but should be ok if I use it very lightly
@Taisto : I also hear that, that the upper mids seem to be so spacious and spread out.. and its something more than just simple panning. Possibly mastering techniques? Hey but thats the style of music.. the bass must just be 'there'.. not 12 different patterns in one track haha if thats what you are referring to? The other thing is that my monitors effectively only go down to about 70hz.. lower than that it gets a bit pap.. so I'm thinking that even though there isn't much down there in the form of 'information', however once I start compressing and EQing then it will obviously affect the upper ranges. Yea I always buss my drums and bass together.. irritates the crap out of me when okes don't because its so apparent. "Flegma & Nerso - Angel Eyes" - Personally, the most perfect track I have ever heard.. like you say, everything from bottom to top is perfectly balanced, its amazing! I'm a live engineer myself, and that is my track I use to tune the outdoor rigs because its just so perfect!
Thanks a lot for the replies! Really nice to have some input from guys with experience!
Lucidity
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Posted : Dec 26, 2012 10:52
Forgot to add, something I did yesterday :
Any feedback will be appreciated
PoM
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Posted : Dec 26, 2012 15:26
i think you dont need speical treatment there ,the samples sound like full on kick bass but at lower tempo.
personally i would aim for the fatest sound possible with using fat sounding sources and/or layer technics.
not that layering is necessary used , but if you want fatest sound possible layering can really help
supergroover
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Posted : Dec 26, 2012 15:34
I think you are doing fine right now. The more tracks you ll make the better it ll sound. You ll refine and refine the sounds.
soundcloud.com/supergroover
PoM
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Posted : Dec 26, 2012 15:36
Quote:
On 2012-12-26 10:52, Lucidity wrote:
Forgot to add, something I did yesterday :
I must say you got darn close, and it sounds very much like Zyce/Flegma.
Don't really know what I'd do to make it better, maybe pull down the velocity somewhat of the first of very three bassnotes.
But would you tell us what processing you did on the kick and bass, is it just EQ?
And did you take a sample for the kick or did you synthesize one?
Lucidity
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Posted : Dec 27, 2012 10:28
@Supergroover :
@PoM : Yea I always tend to mix my stuff with too much mids.. bad habit.. if i drop the mids a bit on the bass then the kick will come up
@Emoticon : Thanx
@Djones : Thanx Yea I play around with the velocities a lot.. otherwise its just plain KbbbKbbbKbbb which is very boring. It really is just EQ and compression.. slight multiband to make the upper mids snappy and keep the subs in control with the mix.. then a single band to stick it all together. The kick is a sample.
Yea okes definitely use bitcrusher a lot... A LOT! Been thinking about some stereo tricks too.. just so scared of loosing the definition.. but should be ok if I use it very lightly 
