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keeping a listener engaged with the track
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dreadieg
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
478
Posted : Jun 13, 2013 18:13:48
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so, i've learning synth work, i know a bit about mixing and mastering, i can do the psychedelic atmospheres, i've got the bass tones i want
now just how the poop do i create a song that keeps people dancing and happy with the vibe?
i have a longer than average attention span when it comes to tracks, mainly because i like drone and bass tones.
but, i would like my music to be fun to listen to.
how many bars do people pay attention to before they get bored? how often does a bass line need to change before it become boring?
i know it's different for everyone, but it'd be nice to get some other opinions.
thanks!
  Doof Local |
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Jun 13, 2013 21:13
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change something at least every 2 milliseconds 
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jun 13, 2013 21:22
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there is no one true answer to this question. Some people can't stand music that changes too much, some people can't stand music that changes too little.
I think some listening research is in order - what are your favorite tracks to dance to? why are they your favorite tracks to dance to? analyze them and see what their arrangement is like, how varied their bassline patterns are etc, how often they introduce change, how quickly or slowly they bring in new elements...
at the end of the day, making music to satisfy what you think people want is in my opinion doing yourself and your musical voice a disservice
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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Xsze
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
657
Posted : Jun 13, 2013 22:10
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Depends on actual impact of the sounds and track, there are some sounds and lines you can listen for 10+ hours in loop without getting bored, in that case you can get away to have them banging for quite long in your track, but there are others that are banging decent time but they just don't work at all, so it all depends really.
It's like you are listening some track that have few elements for 8 mins without getting bored and listening 8 min track with 50+ elements not doing anything, it's all about intelligent arrangement and storyline, most importantly as I said before, having elements that work, nice sounds, good composition and lines.
People usually get bored in introduction part, when something is barely happening, try to make solid storyline there and pretty much catch listeners immediately, after that it's easier to play with tension and release, but in the beginning, just keep it moving and interesting…personally I get bored after 2 mins, so if you need more than than that to show some storyline, than good luck, maybe it will work on dance floor, in my book it's just plain boring 
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Jun 14, 2013 00:19
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
80
Posted : Jun 14, 2013 12:16
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Make yourself some tee, lay back and let your mind go. You might have some thoughts like. How many robot cockroaches do i need to get world domination? or will that flower over there ever be visited by a bee? ... whatever comes in your mind, it actually does not matter, but i do like, ok i am a bee now and need to go to that flower.
And then i immagine how it would be for the bee to fly over there and what things it would need to fight and maybe there is a termic where the bee just needs to "lay back"(not do much to fly) and then a tiger comes and stepps on the flower, the bee gets angry and stabs the tiger. the tiger makes some strange noises but the bee dies.
And after such an idea i try to convert it to a tune.. |
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The Shanti Beat
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
52
Posted : Jun 14, 2013 15:53
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poor bee, must be a sad song !
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Alekzis
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
81
Posted : Jun 14, 2013 16:30
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heres what i like.
make everything loop at some point. not everything at the same point but everything at its own point. that makes music more static and the listener pays 100% attention on any NEW elements you add (previous loops become more hidden to the background) then your story becomes more clear and progressive.
something like that
https://soundcloud.com/poisonritual |
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
113
Posts :
1191
Posted : Jun 14, 2013 16:56
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I feel that something needs to be happening/moving during every phrase and that with every change of phrase, you need to bring something in or take something out.
http://soundcloud.com/rob-vector |
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
33
Posted : Jun 14, 2013 17:24
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Quote:
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On 2013-06-14 00:19, Upavas wrote:
Tell a story! An interesting story. don't just go mantra style, that keeps people bored, tell them a story through your composition, make your synths talk, that will keep them engaged.
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+1
http://soundcloud.com/iamdelic/w-a-d-vap-gr |
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shaker
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
5
Posted : Jul 14, 2013 16:52
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Use the force luke! I think you just have to sit and listen to your track as if it wasn't yours and try to listen to it in an objective fashion. If you get bored with the track at some point that means you should change something. That is my recommendation. Good luck and have fun. |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Jul 14, 2013 18:16
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On 2013-06-13 21:13, supergroover wrote:
change something at least every 2 milliseconds
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Haha! But unless your playing a single frequency tone, this already happens.. it's all about harmonic frequencies jumping around at logical positions giving us an illusion of sound and music -> and if you (the author of the topic) have a long attention span and can listen to drones forever, than just do what you like man! There's got to be more people like you out there And I believe if you produce what you actually like, that it's bound to have more feeling.
And there's a ton of progressive, fullon and dark psy that's 8 minutes of the same loop, with some long pads modulating on it (so it's not quite techno), and people must like it!
But to have a proper idea of your tunes, you should try to experience them your self (try listening to an older tune of yours, you'll always find a bunch of things you'll want to redo).
For me, it must have something interesting evolving: synth sounds, musical composition, effects, progression, harmony, melody, you name it it doesnt matter, as long as there is some sort of element that catches my attention and keeps me there. And that element is what we are all searching for when we work on a tune (and it can be anything: how many great tunes were written with a 3 note riff? how would you explain that?)
Quote:
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On 2013-06-14 12:16, zwarag wrote:
Make yourself some tee, lay back and let your mind go. (...) the tiger makes some strange noises but the bee dies.
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Sick but true.. Try this one: the common Swift, a bird that tries it's best to do everything while flying: they feed, drink, mate and sleep while flying (imagine just flying up and up until the air is so thin you pass out and fall asleep, speeding like a meteor down to earth for a few moments / minutes, just to wake up, get yourself into flight again and go upon your life. Imagine the adventures and life emotions of this type of animal (and the rush they feel upon waking up! Yeah who needs coffee!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Swift
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Jul 15, 2013 16:06
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Quote:
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On 2013-06-13 18:13:48, dreadieg wrote:
so, i've learning synth work, i know a bit about mixing and mastering, i can do the psychedelic atmospheres, i've got the bass tones i want
now just how the poop do i create a song that keeps people dancing and happy with the vibe?
i have a longer than average attention span when it comes to tracks, mainly because i like drone and bass tones.
but, i would like my music to be fun to listen to.
how many bars do people pay attention to before they get bored? how often does a bass line need to change before it become boring?
i know it's different for everyone, but it'd be nice to get some other opinions.
thanks!
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Sorry what? Just make the music YOU want to hear, the music that keeps YOU interested.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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chans
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
57
Posted : Jul 15, 2013 21:39
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varies from track to track.. bounce down feedbacks/tails from reverb n delay fx, stretch reverse, pitch etc etc n use as fillers. make your loops longer, ideally 8 bars and some subtle variations to the elements like drums, basslines, leads etc. every 4 bars; layer your sounds. they'll sound much more complex and 'organic' if u may call it. lots of automation (obviously i dont mean automating random paramaters) will make your track sound more 'alive'
To sum it up making your track sound interesting throughout will be a lot of hard work. i mean thats wat all successful masterpeices require. 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. u might be getting lots of ideas but you need to focus, put them down and WORK on them |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jul 16, 2013 16:18
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dreadieg - The ultimate point of commercial or listened to music, is to steal the market. Still listening?
Right it means you have to do some marketing. Look at a target segment and see what they like. Then ask how are the present artists keeping the attention of their target segment?
Do you have something which will make you different (blue ocean strategy) or are you going to compete on exactly what they do but at a lower cost (red ocean strategy). Its up to you.
If you choose blue ocean then good luck. The odds are against you. Firstly no-one can help you, because if they knew then they would do it themselves and wouldn't need you. And on the odd chance that you get something unique going, guess what... all the useless assholes that go for the red strategy will mimic what you just created. Your only saving grace will be the brand you have built by being first (take note of that last part). You will have to keep delivering on new and unique or people will think you are a one trick horse and abandon you almost instantly.
You want to go for the red strategy? So I guess you wanna be another johnny-come-lately, or also-ran, who doesnt really have any idea of his own, but wants to get into the big time on the coat tails of the blue ocean innovators who came before, stealing their market. Well you can do that too. but no-one will care. you will just be another voice searching for attention. Unless you can leap frog your chosen founders by identifying what mistakes they make and delivering solutions quicker than they can.
The secret ingredient in both those cases was wow-factor in case you missed it. No one will give a shit if you don't have it. You will be just some more meat in the promote anyone label - don't filter losers like they are supposed to "puke machine". You won't get paid anyway.
Now in either case you need to understand what it is that the target segment is mesmerized with so that you can either improve or change, or simply mimic it. Identify the target producers, and study their material. Leech off them. Don't worry, they did the same.
Now fight for market share using either or both of the blue /red strategies superimposed upon the tricks you've stolen from the producers servicing your target segment, rinse and repeat until you have a brand name.
Now you can sit back and enjoy the producer glory, while not having to bother about making quality, since people already trust your skills. But not for too long. Younger leaner hungrier whipper snappers just like you will be on your tail.
Does that answer your question? |
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