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Junkies
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
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1219
Posted : Oct 17, 2011 04:17
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The worst part of cocaine is how seeing it can reawaken greed and selfishness from people who want to get some before it runs out (which happens fast). With that in mind I would prefer that people either keep their coke use well hidden or bring enough to share with everyone  (being careful not to let anyone OD/binge on it)
I think ketamine is a pointless drug at parties. Great for introspective psychedelic experiences but why do it at a party?! It cuts you off from the outside world you could do it literally anywhere and have just as much fun (I've thought about taking it on long plane flights).
I don't care if people are on speed as long as they don't take so much they get psychotic.
And if you're addicted to opiates I don't think your addiction should exclude you from trance parties but PLEASE PLEASE don't shoot up where someone can see you, and bring some goddamn narcan and a friend who knows how to administer it. Opioid overdoses are very unpredictable. |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
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1659
Posted : Oct 17, 2011 10:09
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On 2011-10-17 04:17, Shiranui wrote:
I don't care if people are on speed as long as they don't take so much they get psychotic.
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I agree with you only because I believe everybody has a right to commit suicide (as long as they don't land on anybody's head or crash their car into a cafe full of people etc). Other than that, just as a "concerned citizen" and a pharmacologist, I strongly disagree. Amphetamines in general (and home brewed varieties especially) are very bad news, health-wise. Ecstasy, for example, leads to far more serious problems than morning hangovers.
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And if you're addicted to opiates I don't think your addiction should exclude you from trance parties but PLEASE PLEASE don't shoot up where someone can see you, and bring some goddamn narcan and a friend who knows how to administer it. Opioid overdoses are very unpredictable.
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Yeah, it kinda sucks when somebody "decides" to stop breathing. :-( |
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Danrennt98
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
438
Posted : Oct 17, 2011 23:48
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I agree many people come mainly for the drugs - the "freedom" to shop to their hearts content. They are overwhelmed by the smorgesboard of psychedelikatessen and neuro-poisons that presents itself infront of every tent or in the boot of every car. A perpetual, constantly shifting "Troll Market" of every narcotic they could possibly crave. The general attitude often is - "drugs woohooo, yeah the music...whatever..it sounds good when I´m off my tits". The party/festival simply provides an attractive setting for the drug experience/cocktail of their choice.
I have sometimes been frustrated with people i´ve driven to festivals with who sit in the camp for 99% of the time, engaging in a drugathon from the comfort of their camping chairs, never dancing or exploring. But anyhow, each to their own, if that is their choice to spend their time, good on them.
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I agree with you, but sometimes I think this narcotic-delicatessen is what gets a decent amount of people to like psytrance and eventually be able to go to a party sober as a tree. Maybe it's the drugs or party or both. But most people that I've gotten into psy had to come to a party (and more often then not were on drugs in order to "understand"). These are people (Americans are so culturally disrespectful to EDM) who would scream at me to turn the music off at my house and then 6 months later, they're thanking me for dragging their asses to that first party. Sometimes I think it's a necessary evil unless you have a really open mind to any type of music.
And then, I think many of us go through that phase once we first come into the scene (I've liked EDM since I was a kid but found psy when I was 18), that just go crazy. I don't regret it, but when I first came to the scene I found shit that I've never even been able to come across before so I was at parties and festivals partying my ass off. For me it was always about the music, the drugs were just a +1. But after a year of this, I calmed down and became a more "mature" trancer. Now, I can go to parties without taking a thing (including alcohol) and can have a fantastic time, provided some of the music is my cup of tea - and when I tell people that they generally don't believe me.
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On 2011-10-17 04:17, Shiranui wrote:
The worst part of cocaine is how seeing it can reawaken greed and selfishness from people who want to get some before it runs out (which happens fast). With that in mind I would prefer that people either keep their coke use well hidden or bring enough to share with everyone (being careful not to let anyone OD/binge on it)
I think ketamine is a pointless drug at parties. Great for introspective psychedelic experiences but why do it at a party?! It cuts you off from the outside world you could do it literally anywhere and have just as much fun (I've thought about taking it on long plane flights).
I don't care if people are on speed as long as they don't take so much they get psychotic.
And if you're addicted to opiates I don't think your addiction should exclude you from trance parties but PLEASE PLEASE don't shoot up where someone can see you, and bring some goddamn narcan and a friend who knows how to administer it. Opioid overdoses are very unpredictable.
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And Shiranui - I agree with every word you said. I may have done coke at a party once, but it's like that's not what I'm in the mood for, it just doesn't feel right.
K - it's not a dancing drug - and I don't know why it became a stereotypical party drug. Maybe for some inner-tent daytime festival introspective time, but I generally don't like it because it makes you feel like your mind is 10 feet away from your body.
Speed - agreed.
And I'm a former opiate addict and I've been to festivals taking it. As long as the person, knows their limits and keeps to themselves, why should they be excluded? I never shot up at a party, but I always kept the opiates to my tent/car/whatever. Just because I had a love of opiates doesn't mean I don't love trance and if I could pick one of the two it would be trance. And at least in the states, I think it would be important to have someone know that you're doing opiates, as narcan is illegal in many states and highly controlled (Why? I don't know.) and hard to get. I realize opiates are illegal too,, but people don't go searching for something that will get them un-high as opposed to the opposite. Plus, nowadays they have a wonderful drug called Suboxone/Buprenorphine that makes people not have withdrawals without getting you high and is prescribed easily - which I recommend to any opiate addicts to take at a party instead of mixing their oxys / heroin with lsd and the rest. 2 cents. ;-/ |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Oct 18, 2011 05:39
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On 2011-10-17 10:09, Maine Coon wrote:
Ecstasy, for example, leads to far more serious problems than morning hangovers.
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Please explain what these "serious problems" are and why none of my friends who've been taking E occasionally for years experience them?
Yes people who take E with high frequency for long periods experience serious neurological/psychological issues because of it, but people who take it with high frequency for long periods are the minority.
MDMA is an every few months thing, not an every other week thing.
As for the other amphetamines (since their mechanism of action is quite distinct from MDMA's), they can cause some serious psycho/neuro issues when used HEAVILY, however occasional or low dose use does not produce these major issues. The trouble is that people do not control their dose and let it get out of control. At doses with comparable CNS effects, caffeine and cocaine are both worse for your heart than methamphetamine.
In comparison, alcohol is quite capable of KILLING you without any assistace from heat/dehydration, and is physically addictive with possibly fatal withdrawal (the only other class of drugs with fatal withdrawal are benzos) |
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Danrennt98
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
438
Posted : Oct 18, 2011 09:28
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I think doing a little speed to keep up your stamina is not a big deal. But methheads (daily users) should be extra careful and not come to a party at the end of a 3 day binge.
MDMA has been proven to be not harmful to the user if done at a maximum of once a month (like the 1st of jan all the way to the first of feb) because it takes a month for your serotonin levels to get back to normal. Then you can feel free to flood your brain with it all over again lol ;-)
With alcohol, it takes approx. 4 years of almost daily use for you to become physically addicted, and once you are fatal seizures are a possibly during withdrawal. But since alcohol flows freely at parties, I don't think anyone's going to be dying from a fatal withdrawal seizure.
And just note (while setting aside the possibility of overdose) that opiates are not harmful to the body at all. But my experience has been with oxycodone, which is a pharm. consistency that you know what you're getting each time and there's nothing else in it and it's the same mg. and people don't generally shoot it (side note: they've recently become unabuseable after a huge ~600 million dollar lawsuit from the US federal government after they were marketed as unaddictive). But I think people doing H should have tested their product before they come to the party, so they know how strong it is and they don't risk their life, that party/festival, and reputation of psyparties in general. And I don't recommend it to anyone doing it casually at a party, but this is specifically for addicts - I'm willing to be that they won't share hahaha. After all, going into recovery and then coming to a party where you can have what you please is a bit difficult to say the least. How do you feel about opium? I consider that different and more rare. |
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daio
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
338
Posted : Oct 18, 2011 14:08
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coc and opiates are full addictive to body and soul,as amphetamine stuff but less...psychedelics are not but this doesn't mean that someone who takes frequently won't need a psychiatrist...abusment of drugs is really dangerous but addiction makes users unable to understand it.that's the trap people get in! |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Oct 19, 2011 19:20
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Shiranui,
Everything you said about E is true. …Or not.
Studies on this subject are contradicting each other.
One thing is well established, though: E causes oxidative stress, which basically “burns” serotonergic neurons. It’s not just a matter of depleting your serotonin stores, it’s the matter of damaging the cells themselves. There is some evidence that the cells recover, but it’s still not clear whether all of them recover or whether new connections they form are as functional as the original ones.
The jury is still out on those questions, but I have seen slices of monkey brain after MDMA use comparable to human recreational use: all serotonergic markers were gone. I don’t remember how often (I think it was once every 2 weeks) or for how long those monkeys got the drug (that was in 1993).
Now, could it be that monkeys react differently than humans? Maybe. Could it be that a simple mg per kg body weight dosage is a flawed method? Maybe. Could it be that Darwin was full of doodoo feces (© M. Jackson) and we are not related to monkeys at all? Not entirely impossible.
Am I keen on finding out by experimenting on myself? No, thanks.
As for your friends, I am very happy for them. And I sincerely hope that you’re right and nothing bad will ever happen to them. But then again, people are OK for a while with asbestos in their air and lead or arsenic in their water. Until they are no longer OK, that is.
I don’t judge anybody who uses E – just suggest that they don’t do it.
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
193
Posts :
3858
Posted : Oct 19, 2011 19:28
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I'm completely addicted to Coke...
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Oct 19, 2011 20:31
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^
Dr. Pepper, in my case.
And cheesecakes, but I learnt to control that addiction and limit myself to a slice in a few months.  |
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
193
Posts :
3858
Posted : Oct 19, 2011 20:35
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Danrennt98
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
438
Posted : Oct 21, 2011 09:14
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@ Maine Coon - for E, since it takes your brain a month to recover serotonin - it makes sense that those monkey got some brain damage.. The problem is when you take it more than once a month, the E starts digging those cells for more serotonin once it's released all that you've got. I'm not saying it's healthy, but if you can limit yourself to once a month or less, you're not going to get all bent out of shape. |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
1219
Posted : Oct 21, 2011 11:23
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@Maine Coon
I only know of one MDMA study done on monkeys and it was later found that they mixed up and accidentally gave the monkeys Methamphetamine at MDMA-level doses instead of MDMA. Are you referring to a different study?
there are proven ways to greatly reduce the oxidative damage (taking a short-acting SSRI at T+6-8 hours, loading up on antioxidants, keeping your body temperature down).
And I want to ask: How does this compare to neurological damage caused by alcohol?
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Oct 25, 2011 17:46
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On 2011-10-21 11:23, Shiranui wrote:
@Maine Coon
I only know of one MDMA study done on monkeys and it was later found that they mixed up and accidentally gave the monkeys Methamphetamine at MDMA-level doses instead of MDMA. Are you referring to a different study?
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Not sure. But I remember it was 1994.
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there are proven ways to greatly reduce the oxidative damage (taking a short-acting SSRI at T+6-8 hours, loading up on antioxidants, keeping your body temperature down).
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True.
Or...
... one can just not take E.
What a revolutionary idea! 
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And I want to ask: How does this compare to neurological damage caused by alcohol?
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Drinking once a month vs. taking E. once a month?
I suspect alcohol wins.
Not that it makes any difference to me personally. |
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
193
Posts :
3858
Posted : Oct 25, 2011 18:13
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The solution is simple:
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Oct 25, 2011 18:31
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Yep.
And stay away from them cheesecakes.
Especially after you
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