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Is this really the best way to start?
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 10:26
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Jikkenteki - Agree with you about the lowering of costs of production and lack of writing skills. The rest of the proselytizing is not directed at you.
Whereas previously people had to compete for studio time based on proficiency, now there is no competition. So the first bad artist weeding mechanism is gone.
Secondly - People who actually make music their career - Quickly learn that there's no money in psy (cos hippies don't have any money, coz they don't believe they gotta work, coz they're beautiful human beings already, and they've already got plenty of spiritual capital to get them comfy in the afterlife) and go somewhere else. Music takes work, and artists need to eat, and if the show they put on doesn't feed them, then they go do something else. In the end there's no real prize to compete for.
No competition, no competition. Music gets worse, people get bored, scene gets worse. So much for the flower generation. Looks great on paper just like communism. Global togetherness...
Everyone's too busy building karma by helping others out, but no-body knows where the actual material work/production/money comes from that is the actual economic strength of a society.
A failed ideology, being made manifest by the obvious poverty of any REAL achievements. |
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bilbobagginz
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
399
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 16:45
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bukboy, thumbs up.
Given all this, you've left out the initial limitation of the style,
and almost a "culture of no musical education" in the psy scene.
Some are nearly proud they can't differe a minor from major, some don't know notation... This "proud ignorance" also doesn't add anything to the situation.
And all the "optimization-inviting" term "the industry", is also a nice nail in the coffin of nowadays dancing music's progress.
Ellon, you claim progress will happen no matter what.
I think you should learn a little bit more about the nature.
Look at the deep sea creatures: according to many studies they have evolutionarily not changed: no light changes, no pressure changes, shortly no environmental changes make them stop their development. i.e. even given the natural selection, the population doesn't create new features, if the situation is balanced and stable.
What I mean is - progress must come from change.
Either external or internal.
Any creative development increase has been linked to changes in the environment or social/economical one.
nothing comes from nothing.
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dreadieg
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
478
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 17:29
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heh. i make psytrance because i love it.
not because i want to be better than any of you.
write for love, not competition.
bukboy: being an anarchist, i'm completely set against the idea that people need to be told what to do.
they just want to be told, if we take away those evil enough to try to control and take advantage of, then the natural order will re-assert itself.
the strong will survive, the weak will die off.
sounds better then controlling the weak, just let em die. |
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Cozycactus
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
48
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 17:44
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dreadieg strong people won't let die to weak people..because how they can be strong if there is no weak?..
so strong people maintaing the existence of weak at low level:) |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 18:32
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On 2009-04-19 16:45, bilbobagginz wrote:
bukboy, thumbs up.
Given all this, you've left out the initial limitation of the style,
and almost a "culture of no musical education" in the psy scene.
Some are nearly proud they can't differe a minor from major, some don't know notation... This "proud ignorance" also doesn't add anything to the situation.
And all the "optimization-inviting" term "the industry", is also a nice nail in the coffin of nowadays dancing music's progress.
Ellon, you claim progress will happen no matter what.
I think you should learn a little bit more about the nature.
Look at the deep sea creatures: according to many studies they have evolutionarily not changed: no light changes, no pressure changes, shortly no environmental changes make them stop their development. i.e. even given the natural selection, the population doesn't create new features, if the situation is balanced and stable.
What I mean is - progress must come from change.
Either external or internal.
Any creative development increase has been linked to changes in the environment or social/economical one.
nothing comes from nothing.
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????
Who's mentioning the word nothing? Only you my friend...try to understand what is being said before any recomendation...
"Look at the deep sea creatures: according to many studies they have evolutionarily not changed: no light changes, no pressure changes, shortly no environmental changes make them stop their development. i.e. even given the natural selection, the population doesn't create new features, if the situation is balanced and stable."
Dont mean to be personnal but where do you stand in terms of evolution theory? Are you sure that the execptional existance of some species in the bottom of the seas with minor evolutionary change (apparentely) can actually justify such a concept in its whole?
I think you are the one who really needs to study about social and natural changes or shall we call it evolution?
There is no such thing as a formula to justify progreess (as in evolution), humans dont have the capacity to understand all the intervinients in a cause effect situation...life is more than meets your eyes!!!
People who are full of certanties are usually not instruments of change...
@bukboy
your evidence can be found in the evolutionary concept post-darwin (which by the way is still of today) - for example how could some scientist, without the advent of DNA, could actually have a clear vision of evolution? I hope you know that it carries massive weight in whatever the future holds. You will see that success of a determinate reality is caused by many factors. And some of this factors can not be determined...as we dont have access to it..for now!!!!
Keep asking questions to yourselves and don't claim absolute, unmutable theories for the sake of the world...what yesterday was a scientific fact is completely "crushed" by everyday science!!! Progrees is about questioning not about sticking to formulas...
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 21:15
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Ellon - I cannot understand what you are talking about. How is dna relevant to competition or progress?
And the
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I hope you know that it carries massive weight in whatever the future holds. You will see that success of a determinate reality is caused by many factors. And some of this factors can not be determined...as we dont have access to it..for now!!!! |
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Does this sentence mean anything? Coz it sounds like padding...
P.S. Don't get me wrong. I like to meet people. New Ideas are good for me. But you sound like you've been brainwashed by some spiritual guru. No offense. Can you please start following a logical line of thought? |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 21:35
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Quote:
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bukboy: being an anarchist, i'm completely set against the idea that people need to be told what to do.
they just want to be told, if we take away those evil enough to try to control and take advantage of, then the natural order will re-assert itself.
the strong will survive, the weak will die off.
sounds better then controlling the weak, just let em die.
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dreadieg - I think anarchism is a misguided philosophy of people who are unwilling to look at humanity as fundamentally unequal. Into the future, when we deposit our species and life over ever inhabitable rock in the universe, all will be the same. There will always be the unconscious people who need to be told to WORK...PRAY...and HAVE CHILDREN. Those - low cost labour, honest, self replenishing resource - sheep are the basis of any society. And they need to be herded by those that are conscious enough to see that the children of those people need jobs when they grow up, that they need resources to have those jobs, and that other competing societies have exactly the same need i.e. growth or extinction.
A more driven counterargument to anarchism, is simply, that large societies are more productive, and therefore can defend themselves better against random events, and survive better than individualistic subsistence farmers. Much like a hive of insects can fight off predators much better than solitary victims.
Lastly - the Natural order is just a way of saying everything that has been up till before technological revolution.
But the reality of growth (the only real purpose) in the natural order, is actually very similar to that of what technology has to offer. i.e. New growth methods and systems but faster and better.
Anyway, looking down at us from space, do you think aliens wouldn't think we were not part of whatever nature we like to think we are not part of?
"Nature" is a concept that's up for grabs when ever a better growth tool is invented. For example currency... makes us a far more productive species, capable of supporting far larger populations simply through the easy of trade afforded by a convenient currency. It also allows us to trade our labor and products in such a way that specialists of all kinds can share in the surplus of the farmers etc. We created these things and therefore... its our nature.
Don't be brainwashed by primitive individuals promoting primitive ideologies of living off the land etc, We only have one way to go... more technological growth whatever the cost, to get us off this rock so we dont all eat each other - just to have food. The alternative is to wait for an asteroid to end our primitive subsistence farming hippy beliefs.
 Bad bad english. |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 22:07
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Ascension - Sorry I digress and hijack... |
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Cozycactus
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
48
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 22:08
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Hyperboreans so the farm people who growing foods for you, u call them primitive individuals? |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 22:40
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On 2009-04-19 21:15, bukboy wrote:
Ellon - I cannot understand what you are talking about. How is dna relevant to competition or progress?
And the
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I hope you know that it carries massive weight in whatever the future holds. You will see that success of a determinate reality is caused by many factors. And some of this factors can not be determined...as we dont have access to it..for now!!!! |
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Does this sentence mean anything? Coz it sounds like padding...
P.S. Don't get me wrong. I like to meet people. New Ideas are good for me. But you sound like you've been brainwashed by some spiritual guru. No offense. Can you please start following a logical line of thought?
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Bukboy,
Though music is really my first love...i've dedicated myself for the past 10 years to studying and teaching in the fields of anthropology, sociology and philosophy. I'm sorry you cannot keep up with simple concepts...or you simply are not interested in a different view from yours!!!!
I think i was being very clear: evolution/progress is not dependent of competition. This is a common view in todays social sciences!!!! If you want to take it to a more ESSENTIAL plane...even in the line of evolution it was not the more capable who always triumph or at least the more capable according to our perception of reality.
If you are going to quote me, please do it in a serious way and do not take it out of context!!!
Finally, DNA carries the ultimate information about the triumph of a determinate reality, it is the most accurant information to study the reasons of progress and evolution.
Wether you like it or not, competition is only a small intervinient in the giant process of evolution...and of course i'm not refering to any metaphysical phenomena!!! It's all a question of access to information which as you probably guess changes every day...
So no point in having this black&white perception of things Everything is connected (even in a smaller scale), every phenomena is dependent of millions of causes and projects millions of consequences...
Hope it is clear for you...
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Apr 20, 2009 15:20
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Some good replies here (and off track comments -those were ok too). I definitely agree with the comments Jikkenteki made. I think a lot of people realize this and is just a byproduct of how the production of music has changed over the years. Good point on saying that the number of producers has increased in size more than the listener base.
I'm not saying this is a way to correct the "same-ness" in the sound or that it is even possible to do, just wanted to bring up a topic some people may have not thought about. Most people immediately blame the same-ness sound on the availability of production software nowadays so I just wanted to counter point it with maybe it's the producers themselves. Not that this is easy to do anyway, there will always be similar sounding music within a genre.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 20, 2009 15:25
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Ellon - Oh my Ive been looking for someone like you. Id like to discuss some ideas.
Personally I am of the opinion that sociologists are socialist fundamentally and there is a lot to contributed to the field by a nice materialist capitalist.
Can you please provide me with some reading resources?
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| I think i was being very clear: evolution/progress is not dependent of competition. This is a common view in todays social sciences!!!! If you want to take it to a more ESSENTIAL plane...even in the line of evolution it was not the more capable who always triumph or at least the more capable according to our perception of reality.
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This is a point that is very dear to me and I would like to see a logical derivation of your 1 line refutation.
P.S. do you have a degree in sociology, anthropology or philosophy? |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : Apr 20, 2009 16:37
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On 2009-04-20 15:25, bukboy wrote:
Ellon - Oh my Ive been looking for someone like you. Id like to discuss some ideas.
Personally I am of the opinion that sociologists are socialist fundamentally and there is a lot to contributed to the field by a nice materialist capitalist.
Can you please provide me with some reading resources?
Quote:
| I think i was being very clear: evolution/progress is not dependent of competition. This is a common view in todays social sciences!!!! If you want to take it to a more ESSENTIAL plane...even in the line of evolution it was not the more capable who always triumph or at least the more capable according to our perception of reality.
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This is a point that is very dear to me and I would like to see a logical derivation of your 1 line refutation.
P.S. do you have a degree in sociology, anthropology or philosophy?
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Though very long it can provide a good view about the complexity of the conditions in evolution (progress)...which i beleive is the ESSENTIAL field concerning competition!!
http://www.evanwiggs.com/articles/reasons.html#hominid
Hope we can continue to discuss this matter...and sorry everyone for the off-topic
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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Andrew
Voice Of Cod / Zuloop
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
218
Posted : Apr 22, 2009 14:10
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On 2009-04-19 08:40, Jikkenteki wrote:
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Today people just have to get some software and can get an entire recording studio in their computer at home. Considering that the majority of people making music these days probably don't buy even 5% of the software they use, the investment to get involved is basically 0 for most, so... many more people get involved. The net has made it easy to get information on how to improve your production skills (which are completely different from your skills at writing music) so you get a bunch of people turning out fairly polished music in a very short time. In my opinion this is one major issue in that most people's production skills far exceed their ablility to actually write music, something which is much more difficult and basically only comes with years of hard work (one famous artist said a while back that it probably takes an average of about 7 years to get your writing skills up to snuff, which I think is a fairly safe estimate overall). Basic situation, a ton of people, with decent production skills but fairly underdeveloped writing ablilities.
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I wanted to add that I agree with most of what you've said, but I've seen plenty of reources out here on the web for learning music theory and arrangement, you've just got to look, and I would argue that even with plenty of info gleaned off the web on production, it still takes a fair few years till your skills really come together.
As for degrees of difficulty, that's subjective, it depends what you're naturally more talented at.
I think the computer music revolution has been excellent! One of the reasons i got started in the first place was because I could work with an interface I was used to.
peace and respect.
http://www.reverbnation.com/thecontrolzeds |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Apr 22, 2009 14:46
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I don't think there is a "right" way to start. It all comes down to years of listening, dancing and loving the sounds you like to listen, dance to and love.
Once you come to that you simply develop your own sounds, that make you feel good.
We are all making music today, because we went to some party years ago, and heard someone's set, that changed our lives forever, so I would not worry much about copying anything other than just finding a way to make music that makes you, feel good.
I strongly disagree with the whole "competition" thing though. Making music is not a contest, its just a way of expressing your feelings, nothing more, nothing less.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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