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Is this really the best way to start?
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Apr 17, 2009 20:08
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There has been one type of bassline in trance since, like the beggining.
1/16th saw. steering away from this is taking a big chance of people saying "its not psy-trance"
obviously it is down to each producer to believe enough in what they like writting and making it psy-trance, regardless of what others will say/think.
but psy-trance is so much more than the bassline. yes the bassline is the foundation of your music, but there is a lot more to it.
 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Apr 17, 2009 20:15
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Apr 17, 2009 20:19
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Sure thing, square basslines sound great, especially when there are more oscillators mixed in and they dont follow the 16th pattern, like Clear Skies and Easy To Get Lost on your newly aquired album 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : Apr 17, 2009 21:31
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Quote:
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On 2009-04-17 18:18, bukboy wrote:
In short - togetherness does not make for good music. All progress comes from competition.
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Sorry for just quoting this paragraph as i enjoy your words a lot but...this quote is simply not true!!! The reasons for progress or regression are simply not predictable!!! Competition is a social concept with defined intervinients and reason...progress (change) happens in contexts beyond our understanding and whatever the posture is towards the other, the so call progress will happen no matter what...
Yin&Yang, Black&EWhite, Wet&Dry are not the cause for evolution, progress, regression or change...i see them more as symptoms 
Peace!!!
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 17, 2009 22:04
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Ellon - Im authoritarian. I believe that 90% of people have very little consciousness and need to be told what to do and how to live life. And my general attitude is guilty until proven innocent.
Eastern philosophy to me is a vague mystical con job that puts food in the stomachs of frauds.
But one thing Im pretty sure about, being ultra conservative, is that creativity takes deliberation and initiative. The exception occurs rarely. But then random stuff happens all the time.
Even so... Competition is the ultimate force to deliberation and initiative. So without that.... It'l happen rarely although randomly.
Can you deny that in the right conditions, with the right education and incentives theres a lot more creativity?
In which case, the philosophies of spiritualists and hippies wanting good music , are as misguided as the muslims are, wanting growth while repressing science.
I agree with your comments about Yin-Yang etc are symptoms.
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : Apr 17, 2009 23:41
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Quote:
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On 2009-04-17 22:04, bukboy wrote:
Ellon - Im authoritarian. I believe that 90% of people have very little consciousness and need to be told what to do and how to live life. And my general attitude is guilty until proven innocent.
Eastern philosophy to me is a vague mystical con job that puts food in the stomachs of frauds.
But one thing Im pretty sure about, being ultra conservative, is that creativity takes deliberation and initiative. The exception occurs rarely. But then random stuff happens all the time.
Even so... Competition is the ultimate force to deliberation and initiative. So without that.... It'l happen rarely although randomly.
Can you deny that in the right conditions, with the right education and incentives theres a lot more creativity?
In which case, the philosophies of spiritualists and hippies wanting good music , are as misguided as the muslims are, wanting growth while repressing science.
I agree with your comments about Yin-Yang etc are symptoms.
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But deliberation and initiative are not sons/daughters of competition...who can predict what are those right conditions? The world is full of examples of failures (couldn't find a better word) despite the right conditions, the right education and incentives...creativity has more to do, IMHO, with the act itself of creation...or maybe the need to perpetuate, to stop time, to understand...more like a mirror, a distorted mirror.
You must konw i'm sure, that grief, pain, sorrow, "lack of right conditions" are as strong contenders as a cause for change, for creation or progress.
Energy (without the concept of good or bad in it) generates more energy in a constant loop of further complexity until...who knows? I don't...
Rules, concepts, theories, ideology are all man made...energy goes beyond and we are only mere generators and receivers!!!
Take care and be well!!!
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 18, 2009 09:01
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : Apr 18, 2009 15:33
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bukboy,
Though i don't quite see your extended point in posting this text, i will say that you maybe fail to observe something important when using such an essay: the context...
Orwell's words and work (in general) are against all forms of authoritarianism but also pointing out how easy it is for a few to dominate and control millions...through manipulation and self-convincing!!!
My point is that the wheel of change (evolution) rolls beyond these realities and consciousness is but the rare capacity to acknowledge this and recognize how helpless we are to really interfere in a premeditaded way...
I strongly believe that one is responsible for its path and that one's actions are determinant in the cause/effect equation but
evolution (and creativity) are bound to happen no matter what...
Thanks for the essay...
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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nick
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
60
Posted : Apr 18, 2009 16:23
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Apr 18, 2009 20:17
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Copying is a very good practice for learning. In painting, or music - no matter.
And, if you have a strong creativity inside, it will be never ruined by that, but just the opposite.
http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 18, 2009 22:18
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Ellon - I just don't follow the argument. I was hoping you would translate it into a form that explains clearly and logically why you disagree with me.
Specifically I think you are being deliberately vague....
Competition is required for progress. You disagree because?
It is a good essay. But it was about twisting the english language so much so that it no longer carries any meaningful concepts or images, and instead expresses only self serving psuedo intellectual narcisism. What I mean is I just dont get your point, and I dont think the way you have presented it anyone could come to logical conclusions.
Are you saying Im completely missing the point? Possibly, but then you have to describe a superior source of progress. Not just poo poo that you disagree without a replacement concept. |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : Apr 18, 2009 22:36
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OK...now i get the essay reason!!! Thought i was being very clear...
I desagree that competition IS REQUIRED for progress not that it can also be a factor/cause for progress...
I just think you cannot "blame it" only in competition to justify progress.
Evolution (progress) takes place, has causes and consequences further beyond the realm of premeditation.
Theories like: only the strong survive or the more capable or even the winners are very outdated...the wheel of life (progress/evolution) has causes beyond our understanding...
That's all
p.s. - i was not being vague on purpose...
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
http://soundcloud.com/capecodplatform |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Apr 18, 2009 22:50
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
356
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 08:40
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I personally never tried copying another artists track and in electronic music I don't really even see how it would be possible. A useful exercise once or twice, sure, but as a way to learn, I'm not sold on the idea. The copying of other's music on an actual music instrument is a whole other story since there are technical details on how to play that need to get worked out, muscle memory developed, etc, but for this kind of music in the way that most people create it (point and click) I can't see it as a primary way to learn.
As for the "same-ness" you are hearing these days, I think it comes down to a number of interconnected factors. This scene has always been following the trend you currently see now where a sub-genre becomes big, the majority of people copy it until it hits a point of backlash and a couple of new movements develope against it, repeat, repeat, repeat.
The difference now-a-days is that making and releasing music is much much easier than it used to be. Back in the early days, one general had to actually lay down the money to buy real synths, possibly even go to real recording studios, and spend ALOT of money to get releases out there. The sheer cost involved limited it to people who could afford to buy the gear (and, I might argue, were generally more serious due to the investment involved, many also coming from previous musical back grounds).
Today people just have to get some software and can get an entire recording studio in their computer at home. Considering that the majority of people making music these days probably don't buy even 5% of the software they use, the investment to get involved is basically 0 for most, so... many more people get involved. The net has made it easy to get information on how to improve your production skills (which are completely different from your skills at writing music) so you get a bunch of people turning out fairly polished music in a very short time. In my opinion this is one major issue in that most people's production skills far exceed their ablility to actually write music, something which is much more difficult and basically only comes with years of hard work (one famous artist said a while back that it probably takes an average of about 7 years to get your writing skills up to snuff, which I think is a fairly safe estimate overall). Basic situation, a ton of people, with decent production skills but fairly underdeveloped writing ablilities.
Couple this with the fact that the costs involved in printing CDs has dropped significantly in the past 7 or 8 years. What used to be a serious financial commitment has now become fairly doable to anyone who is willing to save money for a couple of months. This created kind of an endless circle. Due to the increasing number of unknowns appearing, established labels start focusing on a core of reliable "friends" in their releases, making it harder for new people to get released. This causes them to say "the hell with it" and start their own label, which increases the number of labels out there. Repeat, repeat, repeat....
Now you have a huge number of people fighting for a listening base which really haven't increased that much (the growth in artists, labels and releases, far exceeds the number of purchasing listeners). All the competition understandablely puts established labels in a tough spot. Money is tough to come buy and a couple of bad releases can now sink a label financially, so they start playing it safe and releasing music based on whatever is "in" trend-wise. Artists, if they want to have any prayer of being released need to write in that style, so they learn said style. The releases still don't come so... make your own label... (sense a pattern evolving?)... more labels.... more sameness.
Competition in one form or another can be a positive influence on one's skill development, but on a whole, I think that competition is what "problem" is in the scene today. Which again goes back to music writing. Artists need to be as good as they can be to have any prayer of a shot. Production skills and music writing skills are both important skills all artists must develop. Of the two, production (while indeed difficult) is much easier to work on and yields much quicker results than improving your music writing skills (a very vague skill at best), so most artists (again understandablely) will focus on the production side of things (just look at the thread topics on this site). Easier to do, faster results. But the end result is highly polished works of little to no musical merit, sounding much like everything else out there (so it won't get released, so someone opens up another label of their own..... repeat).
This is by no means limited to psy-trance and indeed most kinds of music are having issues with this, but the smallness of the scene makes the problem that much worse since there is a much higher listener to artist ratio in psy than many other forms of music. Everyone wants to get involved and, perhaps unfortunately, everyone can
New Album: Jikkenteki - Flights Of Infinity
Available for free at http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/jikkenteki-flights-of-infinity/
PAR-2 Productions http://www.par-2.com |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Apr 19, 2009 10:04
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Ellon - do you have any evidence for this? |
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