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Is this really the best way to start?
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 15:50:12
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I've mulled this around in my head for a while and wanted to get others opinion's on the subject.
Over and over again I see people suggesting and doing this. When someone starts producing they are told to listen to a track they like and then try to reproduce it themselves. I will agree this is a great excercise to learn production, but what affect does it have on production?
I see so many people saying this and hear it myself: a lot of music coming out now by new producers isn't that good. It sounds like the same generic stuff in that genre of psy. Is this caused by people learning production techniques by copying existing music? Since I am still new to this, maybe this is the way other existing and widely considered "good" producers started as well (I would really like to know how other producers began learning production techniques).
I don't have an answer to this question, but I tend to lean towards thinking that it may be at least partly true/responsible. Maybe I'm way off, maybe I'm dead on, I don't know and I'm not claiming either. I just posted this to get people thinking about this subject and to get some feedback.
  http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 15:57
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When I picked up the guitar, I started learning how to play other people's tunes first. Even if I did copy the same chords, my sound/playing was different.
Then I wrote my riffs, that ended up sounding very different from that and so on.
Its similar to music production, although it does get a bit worse since synths have presets. I guess that is the reward that people get for taking the time to make their own synth patches from scratch.
And the reason there is a lot of samey music around, is not the producer's fault, but the record label's.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Ascension
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 16:10
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Interesting. Do you think though that since production is different from playing an instrument that this technique has a greater affect on the producer's style? Or maybe that you can get a "result" faster with production that your technique just didn't have enough time to evolve to sound different than the style you learned from?
It's pretty uncommon for someone to pick up an instrument and play something unique, but I think with the way production software is, you have the ability to create something unique (withing the musical structure of a genre) right away. Maybe the differences are the same, but just not at subtle in production compared to playing an instrument. I dunno...
Also, interesting comment on the record labels, didn't think of that before, thanks.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 16:21
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Well, I don't think it is that easy to sound like someone else, unless you are using the exact same synths and presets.
Letting that aside, when I first started messing around with synths, was when I was in college. We had a big Doepfer modular synth there (I bought one my self after months of pushing flight cases in the venue I later became a sound engineer) and I started messing around with it at the same time I did my basic analog electronics class. I was really intrigued by the way analog circuits worked so I just started making my own sounds from scratch and I did just that for about a year, before I sat down and started making arrangements with my own sounds in.
I am glad I did so cause (liek them or not) I do use sounds that are completely of my own, although quite a few are not very different than stuff that has been used before...at the end of the day a single saw in a high pass filter, sounds somewhat similar on different synths...to the common ear anyhow.
Although having said that its not that easy to sound like another producer, we have all the israeli full on clones...I guess I just don't know the answer to this question. 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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576
Posted : Apr 17, 2009 16:54
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On 2009-04-17 15:50:12, Ascension wrote:
Over and over again I see people suggesting and doing this. When someone starts producing they are told to listen to a track they like and then try to reproduce it themselves. I will agree this is a great excercise to learn production, but what affect does it have on production?
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I tried it once and totally abandoned this type of learning.. I like more to clear my mind from any influence and create what I want.. Well maybe I sacrifice my music to not sound like others but at least its authentic.. If I get any influence than thats from remixes and ideas from djing if Im not able to clear my mind before..
I think atmos said it good when he said in some interview that u have to follow type of current music that is playing in the clubs but still remain the same and follow your own style.. Well I didnt listen to his new album so I cant say if hes true to his statement but I believe he is and that he didnt went to far following trends and thus making music generic and non interesting or how to say, without fresh ideas..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 16:58
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Most of my influences these daqys, come from music that does not fall under the psy-trance genre...or the dance music genre over all.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 18:07
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On 2009-04-17 16:58, pipe&slippers wrote:
Most of my influences these daqys, come from music that does not fall under the psy-trance genre...or the dance music genre over all.
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+1
I tend too attend classic philharmonic orchestra concerts.. I read somewhere that in 25 minutes of classic its contained ideas that compares to listening whole day of radio.. It just requiers more attentive listening..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
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40
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 18:18
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I think the lack of originality of psy is rooted in the philosophy of spiritualism. i.e. we're all part of some uber consciousness, so we should all share since we're all basically the same.
The consequences of this is that no-one bothers outdoing anyone else, making something original. Basically everyone must be brothers...
Psy is ironically hobbled by the roots of its own success, i.e. tribal togetherness. The repetitive uninspired music is most directly the result of a mistaken ideology and propaganda.
Spiritualism is based on the assumption that we have implicit worth in the view of the great universal consciousness or whatever, and completely misses out on the need for development and conflict which leads to growth and new ideas. Since after all we're already perfect, created in the image of some made up story.
In short - togetherness does not make for good music. All progress comes from competition.
To answer the initial question - where do the original artists learn their skills? You should look up an article on the history of psy. One I saw stated that all the major artists started out in different genres then chose to go into psy because they saw it as a growth opportunity. But once they achieved and differentiated themselves, they moved on. It was just the party goers who wanted more of the same who stayed behind, and the dj's who were willing to feed that need. |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 18:22
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Quote:
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On 2009-04-17 16:54, x-rayz wrote:
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On 2009-04-17 15:50:12, Ascension wrote:
Over and over again I see people suggesting and doing this. When someone starts producing they are told to listen to a track they like and then try to reproduce it themselves. I will agree this is a great excercise to learn production, but what affect does it have on production?
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I tried it once and totally abandoned this type of learning.. I like more to clear my mind from any influence and create what I want.. Well maybe I sacrifice my music to not sound like others but at least its authentic.. If I get any influence than thats from remixes and ideas from djing if Im not able to clear my mind before..
I think atmos said it good when he said in some interview that u have to follow type of current music that is playing in the clubs but still remain the same and follow your own style.. Well I didnt listen to his new album so I cant say if hes true to his statement but I believe he is and that he didnt went to far following trends and thus making music generic and non interesting or how to say, without fresh ideas..
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Yeah I haven't even tried this at all. I just go and create something and let my creativity run its course. I know what types of sounds (leads, pads, fx, perc) will create certain types of emotions and that's all I go off of.
I don't really know where most of my influence comes from, probably Jazz. All I do is try to create something psychedelic/along the lines of what I set out to create in that track and make sure it's something I'm happy with by the time I render it.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 18:26
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 18:59
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Peter Bull
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 19:39
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Quote:
| I see so many people saying this and hear it myself: a lot of music coming out now by new producers isn't that good. It sounds like the same generic stuff in that genre of psy.
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First of all, there have always been in every genre, artists and bands that follow the trend instead of influence it. It is just plain natural law. You will always have those who stick out of the crowd
I reckon as psy evolves into different directions and have thousands of different interpretations, its more difficult to be original, innovative and creative, simply because all the ideas has been done before.
But this just a theory i have!
This is also a matter of musical taste. An artist can sound amazing to one set of ears, but at the same time generic to another.
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 19:51
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Quote:
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On 2009-04-17 19:39, Peter Bull wrote:
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| I see so many people saying this and hear it myself: a lot of music coming out now by new producers isn't that good. It sounds like the same generic stuff in that genre of psy.
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First of all, there have always been in every genre, artists and bands that follow the trend instead of influence it. It is just plain natural law. You will always have those who stick out of the crowd
I reckon as psy evolves into different directions and have thousands of different interpretations, its more difficult to be original, innovative and creative, simply because all the ideas has been done before.
But this just a theory i have!
This is also a matter of musical taste. An artist can sound amazing to one set of ears, but at the same time generic to another.
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It's not really about musical taste though, it's about lack of creativity on the producer's side. When you hear the same saw lead being used in track after track it gets old (just one specific example of what I'm talking about).
I'm not saying the producers are intrinsically bad at what they do, just postulating that their monotonous techniques could be the result of how they learned production. http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 19:55
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where's the fine line of objective critisism though? one that likes dark psy, will love all the glithces, the high BPMs and walls of noise, whereas people don't like dark psy for those exact reasons.
one who likes psy/prog will love the space of a more minimal arrangement, without the noise, the glitches and the frenetic tempos, whereas people dont like psy/prog for those exact reasons.
know what i mean?
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 17, 2009 20:03
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I understand. Except I like every single type of psy from psy prog to neuro and everything in between . I'm trying to discuss this on black and white parameters of the music rather than tastes, like if you started out by always making one type of bassline, that was the same as one artist unless you really make an effort to learn a different technique, it will continue to sound like that.
Maybe we're just saturated with music. I saw someone mention in another thread that there has been a significant increase in the number of labels that will release music today when compared to the past. It could be one of those things like if you put a million monkeys in a room with typewriters, you'll eventually get a Shakespear play written. I dunno...
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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And my thoughts go to the latest Lamb of god album "Wrath"