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Is there any Hardware Enthusiasts here?
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : May 3, 2005 03:38
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On 2005-05-03 01:49, Lord Deo wrote:
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And although the timing might be tight within the workstation, you mentioned several such workstations and other MIDI controlled gear. The problem is the timing between the gear. |
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Trust me, all my live gear is controlled from cs6x, and i got no latency issues there, everything is proper. |
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Sorry, Deo, you just made me snort coffee out of my nose.
Here are some basic facts about the MIDI spec:
MIDI is a serial protocol running at 31250 baud. This means that each MIDI byte takes 320 microseconds to send. Therefore (assuming running status is used) the last note in a 3-note chord is recieved by a MIDI device approximately 1.2ms after the first note.
If your entire track is coming from a hardware sequencer sending MIDI to a number of devices through one single MIDI cable, it would not be unusual to have, for example:
Kick
Snare
Closed HH
Percussion sound of some sort
Crash cymbal
Bass (monophonic)
Lead #1 (monophonic) + 2 MIDI controllers + pitch bend
Lead #2 (monophonic) + 2 MIDI controllers
Pad (3 note polyphonic) + 1 MIDI controller
... all playing on the same exact beat in the sequencer. This is a total of 17 MIDI messages, each taking two bytes of data. 34 MIDI bytes takes about 10ms to send, meaning that the last data is received by the receiving device 10ms after the first - and will then still take a few ms at least to start generating noise based on that data! No latency?
INDISPUTABLE FACT #1
It is physically impossible for each note of even the simplest chord to be played truly simultaneously when using MIDI over cables. On the other hand, MIDI playback using VSTi plugins is truly sample-accurate and allows the simultaneous playback of as many events as desired (CPU power permitting).
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| actually, midi ports don't cause any latency unless you use cables longer then 15 ft. and none of my cables are 15ft, simply because there isn't midi cable that long. |
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INDISPUTABLE FACT #2
The length of a MIDI cable makes absolutely no difference to the time it takes a signal to traverse it. Basic physics: electricity travels at the speed of light and to all intents and purposes MIDI signals are transmitted from one device to another instantaneously. It would take a MIDI cable 300 km long to introduce a 1ms delay in the transmission of data. The MIDI spec suggests a maximum cable length of 50 feet. However it is still wise to keep cable lengths much lower than this for reasons of cable integrity and capacitance effects; long cables are more easily damaged and the longer the cable the more electrical effects are likely to corrupt the signal carried on it.
This post is not intended to be insulting or offensive, but to correct some basic misapprehensions evident in your last post.
  Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : May 3, 2005 04:27
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On 2005-05-03 01:49, Lord Deo wrote:
No dude, i am not ill informed, and i could say the same to you, that you being missinformed in the power that most (not all) but most hardware synths hold.
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*sigh* You obviously arn't doing a very good job of reading my posts. Let me repeat: I use hardware synths/samplers/drum machines both at home and in the various professional studios I work at.
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Trust me from time to time, just to keep myself up todate on what's going on in sound design field i do too try vsti's but when it comes down to laying trax, my hands are on the hardware. simply because so far i haven't seen any vsti that could make sound i couldn't program on my gear. sorry but this is honest truth.
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Really? You mention Absynth yourself. I would like to hear you program some of those sounds on a hardware synth ... anyway, that still isn't my point. I AM NOT DISSING HARDWARE! You came in here dissing software. I am pointing out the advantages of software.
Just so that you stop assuming things about what is possible on a PC and what kind of tools I use, my current project is running (hard and soft included):
Soft Sources:
- Native Instruments Battery
- Muon Tau Pro
- Steinber Groove Agent
- Sonic Charge MicroTonic
- RGC Audio Z3ta+
- AudioRealism Bassline
- LinnPlug Albino II
- UnderTow AliGator 
Soft Effects:
- Voxengo CurveEQ (Doesn't exist in hardware)
- Sonitus Surround FX
- Sonitus Gate (2x)
- Steinberg Stereo Enhancer (3x)
- Sonitus Delay
- Sonitus Compressor (4x)
- Korg MDE-X (2x)
- Sonitus Phase (5x)
- UnderTow MIDI Gate
- PSP Nitro
- PSP PseudoStereo (2x)
- Voxengo VoxFormer
- Muon mdrive
- Sonitus EQ (20x)
- Sonitus MultiBand Compressor
- Waves L3
- Antares Tube
- Waves C1-sc compressor
- PSP MixTreble
- PSP Vintage Warmer
- Antares Filter
- PSP 84
- Voxengo Tempo Delay
That is all running at the same time. My cpu is hovering at arround 72% and peaking at 85% but it still runs smoothly.
(Shit. I hadn't realised I had so much going on ...)
Hard Sources:
- Alesis Andromeda
- Access Virus B
- Korg MS2000
- Yamaha FS1R
- Korg Z1
Hard Effects:
- DBX 266 XL Compressor (3x)
- Yamaha ProR3 Reverb
- Lexicon MPX100 Reverb
- Focusrite Compounder
- Drawmer DS301
- Emagic AMT8 (2x)
- Mixers
That is the stuff being used right now in this project. I wouldn't be able to do that if it was only software OR hardware. It is the combination of both that makes everything possible.
UnderTow |
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TRapp
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
271
Posted : May 3, 2005 11:52
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dear mr Lord Deo...
why are you so anti-software and computers...are you an elitest?? do you feel that maybe you wont be so special anymore if some little kid makes something better than you using only a computer? while you have all this amazing Hardware?
or is it cos you dont know how to use a computer properly? does it confuse you? do you battle to use the software? cos it really confuses me how anyone can be so anti computers and computer based music making...
i mean if you are gona record on hardware i guess you must have some sorta multi-tracl(which in fact is watered down computer) or u are using a tape track (hahaha...) but anyways,...where the hell is the flexiabilty in such systems??
hardware is great i admit, i dont have any yet , but i am gona be getting some soon, cos i have money to do so now....but the fact is for me if it wasnt for computers i would have never of got back into music and i am so chuffed about it that i did....personally the software around truly amazes me as to what is possible and what can be achieved...it is giving people the oppurtunity to create,,,...and ruining the castles of elitest fucks who think that cos they have a tasty piece of expensive gear the music world now shines out of their asses.
its the equivalent of saying oh lets take the paintbrushes away from the painters..that sort of deal, no one ever bitched that anyone can get their hands on a pencil or paintbrush and draw a brilliant picture....so why the hell are you bitching about software and shit.....same difference
the hardware elitest are feeling way threatened cos now any old person on the street can make an awsome track with little more thana computer , some inspiration and some talent....
so......
stop bitching and complaining and just get on with it....
represent~~ |
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14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : May 3, 2005 17:28
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Computers are made up of hardware components.
Hardware people win!
The End.
Me>You |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : May 3, 2005 17:33
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On 2005-05-03 17:28, 14-year old e-tard wrote:
The End.
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YAY
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : May 3, 2005 17:52
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On 2005-05-03 17:28, 14-year old e-tard wrote:
Computers are made up of hardware components.
Hardware people win!
The End.
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Up with the Hardware people... hurray...
But ain't VST more ecological???
lololol
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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orik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
317
Posted : May 3, 2005 18:23
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : May 3, 2005 18:47
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[quote]
On 2005-05-03 17:52, sy000321 wrote:
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But ain't VST more ecological???
lololol
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Hippie! 
UnderTow |
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TRapp
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
271
Posted : May 3, 2005 20:14
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On 2005-05-03 19:43, nolightatend wrote:
1.Companies that develop software for musicians are very poor, means no money not quality product.
2.Current operation systems are not ideal for sound design.
3.Computers are set for multitask uses when audio or video production requires more than that.
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dude...why dont u tell Waves, Steinberg, Tools, Native Instruments to name a few that their product is not quality....i mean really there is some serious software out there!!!
as for computers not being ideal for sound production...why dont you tell every producer and studio owner who have hits on the top40 or somthing and tell them that their DAW is not ideal for music production
what nonsense...
represent~~ |
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slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
263
Posted : May 4, 2005 08:58
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" Native Instruments to name a few that their product is not quality"
it depends on the degree of quality that your talking about. I mostly just use reaktor but i have or have owned a nord modular, k2000, and korg oasys.
I dont care what you do with reaktor it still sounds thinner(not that it sounds thin, just thinner) compared to any of the hardware synths ive used. 20 saws with 10 voice unison in reaktor, doesnt matter, its still thinner.(for now reaktor 5 core may change that:)
The only software synth ive heard that has the huge sound that is being refered to here is the arturia stuff. Moogs just arent that "in" in psytrance though so this is rarely talked about.
I ultimately dont see why this matters though when it comes to making music when you consider modern psytrance production. Its not about huge sounds, its about slicing and dicing everything with eq until the synth has no balls left in the name of "production quality". In the end after being over eq'd, over limited, over compressed and THEN mastered, all synths sound pretty much the same in the final mix these days, so who cares what was used to make it. |
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : May 4, 2005 11:00
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AGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/Sprints off a cliff  |
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : May 4, 2005 11:01
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On 2005-05-03 17:28, 14-year old e-tard wrote:
Computers are made up of hardware components.
Hardware people win!
The End.
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Standalone modules use PROMs which are burned with instruction set which were originally written and conceived as software. Deuce.
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