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Is there any Hardware Enthusiasts here?
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 07:43
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On 2005-04-28 00:21, Lord Deo wrote:
I am hardware, all the way, just cuz doing live show on real thing vs on laptop ain't the same thing.
with hardware you can always improvise, build something new each time you perform: cut filters differently, apply different amount of aftertouch, play on different octave etc. etc. thus posibilities to improvise on hardware are endless as long as your imagination goes with it.
with hardware there's more human expression in the music that makes it live as a sound and as a performance in every aspect, while on the laptops it's all preprogramed - sequenced, repetitive.
Besides, hardware synths, samplers they are musical instruments while laptops are just portalble computing machines a super smart calculators if you will.
Many of you might argue with me about benefits of using computers, but still, i think music should be done on musical instrument and not on some INTEL PENTIUM CHARGED MICROWAVE.
that's my honest opinion as a musician and artist and it's not meant to cause any arguments.
cheers.
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This must be one the top 'narrow minded'-posts!
But in a way funny 
Was it a joke? It must be a joke, yeah. No person that has a bit of brain can say this not as joke.  Signature |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 12:24
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synths are supersmart calculators, or microwaves with keys... or pianos on steroids... 
a VST is more complex technicaly than a virtual analog and much more complex than a analog synth...
A analogue synth is not very different from a more complex radio...
FLAME-MEEEEEEEEE
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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14-year old e-tard
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
797
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 12:28
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On 2005-04-28 12:24, sy000321 wrote:
a VST is more complex technicaly than a virtual analog and much more complex than a analog synth...
A analogue synth is not very different from a more complex radio...
FLAME-MEEEEEEEEE
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Why is it that VSTs still can't emulate analog synths then?
FLAAAMMMMEEEEE 
Me>You |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 12:33
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14-year old e-tard: lololol
when will we have analog parts built into soundcards?
any hardware developers wanna buy the idea from me? lolol
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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satorirazor
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
26
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 15:52
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On 2005-04-21 16:25, FREGLE wrote:
astralasia, when did that hair get up ur ass and how long are u planning to keep it there?
exactly right br0d...
btw, i looked at br0d's setup, and it almost is a hardware setup (with all that dsp-power, a good flexible hardware polysynth,...). So in the future this discussion will be futile, everything is gonna be mixed so much nobody will know anymore (example, the new korg oasis is actually a pc running linux...)
slyman is right too... Those waves plugins are more expensive then most hardware that does the same... So it's bound to sound better, no? And especially effects that have always been better digitaly (like reverbs) pc's have the potential do a much better job than a TC4000, simply because it has more processing power...
this discussion is just getting really out of date and tiring... i'm not even sure i should have posted anything to warrant it's existence...
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Ye!! shure but which company would take their time and money to write such algorithms to make such a "VST"? to be downloaded instead of bought!
and how much dsp is left in your pc after running such plugin??
Hmmmm......
Imagine if life was a trip, and you where the passanger. |
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satorirazor
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
26
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 15:56
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-28 12:24, sy000321 wrote:
synths are supersmart calculators, or microwaves with keys... or pianos on steroids...
a VST is more complex technicaly than a virtual analog and much more complex than a analog synth...
A analogue synth is not very different from a more complex radio...
FLAME-MEEEEEEEEE
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Yeep! just a petty that they sound so cold and dead! (thats not incl. all software)
Imagine if life was a trip, and you where the passanger. |
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Lord Deo
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
215
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 17:26
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Quote:
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On 2005-04-28 07:43, EYB wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-04-28 00:21, Lord Deo wrote:
I am hardware, all the way, just cuz doing live show on real thing vs on laptop ain't the same thing.
with hardware you can always improvise, build something new each time you perform: cut filters differently, apply different amount of aftertouch, play on different octave etc. etc. thus posibilities to improvise on hardware are endless as long as your imagination goes with it.
with hardware there's more human expression in the music that makes it live as a sound and as a performance in every aspect, while on the laptops it's all preprogramed - sequenced, repetitive.
Besides, hardware synths, samplers they are musical instruments while laptops are just portalble computing machines a super smart calculators if you will.
Many of you might argue with me about benefits of using computers, but still, i think music should be done on musical instrument and not on some INTEL PENTIUM CHARGED MICROWAVE.
that's my honest opinion as a musician and artist and it's not meant to cause any arguments.
cheers.
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This must be one the top 'narrow minded'-posts!
But in a way funny
Was it a joke? It must be a joke, yeah. No person that has a bit of brain can say this not as joke.
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Exactly which part did strike you as a joke??? are you trying to insult me or what is it that you trying to pull??
dude, you better play it cool.
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 18:32
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Laptops is superior for live performances IMO.
Hardware controllers do excist for tactile control, and software like abelton is just unbeatable if you actualy want to have great control over as much as possible in a live environment.
To say that "with hardware you can actually improvise" is certainly totally opposite to the truth.
Of course if you have a band of people who play the keyboards live you might get full control with hardware as well, but most live shows I have seen using hardware is using either some form of MIDI sequencer or prerecorded track on for example ADAT.
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 19:03
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If you can afford to take your entire studio on stage every time you play, then can I have some of your 'too much money', please?
We (OOOD) did it regularly for 5 years back in the 90s and every single piece of non-rackmounted external hardware - samplers, analog synths, digital synths, the mixer, even the fucking keyboard stands - was fucked beyond functioning as a result, despite being flightcased. Did we ever get paid enough for our gigs to cover replacement costs? What do you think?
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Lord Deo
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
215
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 20:04
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Decent laptop = over $2,000
Sequencer program with loads of vsti vstfx at least $1,500
External controllers around $400
for all this money, it is possible to get 2 korg tritons, 2 yamaha motifes, 2 alesis fusions or 2 roland fantoms or 3 roland mc-909s.
Now wich of the vsti's would beat these workstations?? please be kind and enlighten me.
Colin i'm sorry to hear that you got your gear all fucked up, but that's a life dude, you don't expect when you buy a car to last it forever now do you? i believe on live performances not only syntsh, samplers get worn out, but laptops do too, even cd's, records whatever, you name it. Does it mean that we shouldn't do live performances in order to save our gear? nope it doesn't. and your valid point about not getting paid enough, well there are insurance companies that will cover the damages sustained by your equipment.
Spindrift,
to improvise on synths live you don't need to have an army of you on stage, just your imagination and the knowledge of your gear, given that you do know how to play the keys.
you can have 12 channels sequenced, and have 4 channels spilt accross the keyboard for live play. many pro workstations offer this feature. And those guys, who came out with the adat tapes onstage, well that's obvious that they weren't so great about playing keys live.
www.venomous2.com
www.myspace.com/venomous2
www.myspace.com/asymmetricnoisesyndrome |
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fregle
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
982
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 21:52
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lord deo, u are correct for most genres, but in psytrance there is so much happening in one song that u do need an army to play everything live, otherwise u will need a backing track... Even in other genres a lot of artists always have a backing track while they are playing.
Now, those tritons/fantoms/motifs are all digital synths... using the same basic technology as a computer... Then why do u think that it's impossible to do the same thing on a computer?
A computer is digital too, just like the tritons/..., and it has much more processing power...
Only if the software that u use is written badly or if the algorithms used are inferior there should be a difference in quality, but there is no reason why a computer shouldn't be able to handle algorithms that are just as good/complex as the algorithms in those workstations...
But it seems that u believe that the people who make the software/algorithms for computers are producing inferior quality compared to the people who make the software/algortihms for those workstations (i think that a lot of the time the same people are writing for computer and for hardware). As a programmer i just can't believe that...
also, u are right when it concenrs creativity and usability, harware is much better... But since the dawn of controllers u can add so much control to a pc that that isn't true anymore... and as to integration... integrating hardware is much harder then integrating software in ur setup |
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Lord Deo
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
215
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 22:23
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FREGLE,
just like i mentioned above, tritons/fantoms/motifs are musical instruments, were manufactured, designed, breed to make music and not to do web design, 3d animation, application development or whatever just like computers do. Yes true that due to the computers processing power virtually almost everything is possible, but again computer ain't musical instruments. how many of you lost that precious project of yours, due to the fact that computer crashes? just recently i read the post at this very message board, about some dude having problems with logic 5 corrupting his file. how many of you'd like to something like that happen to you when you perform live? i bet no one does.
Although is really computer more powerfull then synth? that i doubt. Computers as such have the latency issue, if i'm not wrong. Workstations don't, and sampled audio data on workstations (motif, trtiotn, fantom), will run in perfect sync with midi data.
tell you what i believe though, when i go to the live show, i don't go there for music only, i go there for performance, show, the whole concept of sounds and visuals. otherwise i can enjoy the very same music at home, where there's less crowd, no one pushes and there's no booze or weed limitation.
When i see some dude working his computer (on stage) i personally don't know, if he's watching porn and/or running mp3 tracks with winamp, or if he's really doing something, music wise. it's absolutelly different and uplifting when you see an artist giving his/her 110% working on real piece of musical equipment on stage rather then seeing some dude clicking mouse and standing there like a pole. Stage ain't office, stage ain't place for workers, it's a place for artist, performers. that's my whole point and that's what i believe.
why do you think the majority of people can't stand electronic music in united states? cus there's no life, no human expression, everything is programed. hell some kid with $35 ejay piece of crap can make "music". would you call him up for live show?? doubt that.
most of the shows i've been to, where performance was done on laptops, none of those guys shed even one drop of sweat, no energy, no human touch: and i won't care how good their music is, as long as they are not delivering it right.
Trust me i am trancer balls to bones: been following this style since 1993, although listening to elctronic music since 1978. and i can for sure say that those tracks from the old days would blow the most of the "modern" trance tracks out of this galaxy.
www.venomous2.com
www.myspace.com/venomous2
www.myspace.com/asymmetricnoisesyndrome |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
313
Posts :
8649
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 22:45
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Lord Deo, now that i think about it, what you say makes a lot of sense. Though what and how the artist does with his laptop on stage is one of my least of worries. As long as he doesn't play the exact copy of the tunes.
Reminds me though a gig of Aphex Twin i saw on TV where he was lying on the floor with a loptop and busy pushing buttons and looking bored. Sometimes no performance is a performance as well.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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Lord Deo
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
215
Posted : Apr 28, 2005 22:54
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I saw the prodigy once live in moscow sempember of 1997 and they rocked, even though sometimes tunes weren't running in perfect sync but that gave it even more flavor. unforgetable, killer drive.
not so while ago saw the local floridian guys: rabbits in the moon, performing and playing live, they were great, even though it's been a while since they made something new, but the way they delivered the whole show makes them unique.
now this is what artist should be all about, performing, delivering, sweating, improvising
www.venomous2.com
www.myspace.com/venomous2
www.myspace.com/asymmetricnoisesyndrome |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Apr 29, 2005 00:23
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On 2005-04-28 20:04, Lord Deo wrote:
Decent laptop = over $2,000
Sequencer program with loads of vsti vstfx at least $1,500
External controllers around $400
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P4 2GHz/2MB Cache/533MHz FSB 17" widescreen laptop: 1700$
Ableton Live 4 + M-Audio Ozone: 649$
Total: 3900 - 2369 = 1531$ less than you think.
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for all this money, it is possible to get 2 korg tritons, 2 yamaha motifes, 2 alesis fusions or 2 roland fantoms or 3 roland mc-909s.
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The Triton/Motif/Fusion are not very good for psytrance and their sequencers are horrible for live work. The Roland MC series sounds pretty bad ...
Give me Abelton Live over those any day.
But for good measure, throw in a good synth to do live sounds ...
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Now wich of the vsti's would beat these workstations?? please be kind and enlighten me.
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For psytrance? Most of them.
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not only syntsh, samplers get worn out, but laptops do too,
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A laptop is quite small and light and can easily but put in a proper hardcase backpack to protect it. Also, if you only have a little bit of gear, it is much easier to pay carefull attention to it and make sure it doesn't get dammaged at the end of a party when everyone is tired and wants to get home quickly ...
And about playing live, it is all about tightness. Even MIDI isn't tight enough for today's brand of psytrance for alot of the sounds. Sure you can play some melodies and pads by hand and of course there are many sounds that don't need to be tight by their nature but give me modern digital timing for today's modern music ...
Now don't get me wrong. I love hardware. I have quite a few pieces of juicy gear in my studio but that is exactly where it stays.
UnderTow |
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