On 2008-04-12 11:52, wi']['ch wrote:
you will never convince me that productions with FL and on-board sound-card could possibly to be compared with productions in fully equipped studio with high end da/ad, analog eq's/comps/sum's, proper monitoring/acoustic treatment. Let's compare in average how many psy vs techno producers have those studios? I'm afraid techno would be far away ahead.
I still don´t understand your reasoning,,,, Your saying that the majority of psyproducers use FL7 and onboard soundcards? and lets see now.....hmmmm technoproducers use all the highend monitors, ADDA conv, high end analog gear.
Let me ask you this, do you know this as a fact because you seem to me that your just yankin rabbits out of your ass. I know alot of technoproducers and their stuff sounds really good but their studios are just as minimal as mine ( if you compare to the highend studios ).
Give a damn Noob a 1 million dollar studio with all the bad ass equpiment he can ask for and lets say that we give simon posford FL7 and a onboard soundcard, who will make the best track do you think?
Ghost Host
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Posted : Apr 12, 2008 12:24
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On 2008-04-12 12:09, vegetal wrote:
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On 2008-04-12 11:52, wi']['ch wrote:
you will never convince me that productions with FL and on-board sound-card could possibly to be compared with productions in fully equipped studio with high end da/ad, analog eq's/comps/sum's, proper monitoring/acoustic treatment. Let's compare in average how many psy vs techno producers have those studios? I'm afraid techno would be far away ahead.
you seem to me that your just yankin rabbits out of your ass.
This is not very nice way talk to people, is it? Why don't go fuck your self you fuckin punk!
On 2008-04-12 11:52, wi']['ch wrote:
you will never convince me that productions with FL and on-board sound-card could possibly to be compared with productions in fully equipped studio with high end da/ad, analog eq's/comps/sum's, proper monitoring/acoustic treatment. Let's compare in average how many psy vs techno producers have those studios? I'm afraid techno would be far away ahead.
you seem to me that your just yankin rabbits out of your ass.
This is not very nice way talk to people, is it? Why don't go fuck your self you fuckin punk!
*sigh* What im saying is stop trolling wi']['ch and lets get back on topic shall we?
Ever hear the term pulling rabbits out of a hat? I just assumed that you didn´t have a hat but i do know that you have an ass so 1+1=2?
And the part about "fucking myself" can´t say im that narcissistic that i get a turn on by looking myself in the mirror.
Is the level of production of Techno really 'that' much higher than Psytrance?
I think that in a way its true ..... techno has been around for longer than psy.... their is a lot of subgenres... For example I think the german techno is very well produced, the standard is higher.
psy being itself a subgenre of trance. psy is obviously a more underground subgenre of a more mainstream trance.
further more techno is more minimalistic in its approach. while real psy actually play more on a psychedelic type of sound it tends to have more going on to achieve that. so the arrangment and the the layer are often heavier that in techno... technobeing a more percussive type of music its probably a lot easier to mix.
You do not often see psychedelic producer going too crazy about external fx and mastering hardware like some techno gigs do. you can get professional result with plugins but its less about professioanalism in my view and more with taste. Many germans in the techno scene have an arsenal of tape machines dats compressors .... and often the final media is the vinyl.
I think the techno scene is more passionate about what they do and how they do it. Its also maybe more old school.
Psytracked
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Posted : May 13, 2008 06:29
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On 2008-04-12 01:54, sly wrote:
somebody asked for names. here you are:
juan atkins, derrick may, kevin saunderson, carl craig, jeff mills, mike banks, robert hood, claude young, richie hawtin, carl cox, dave clark, luke slater, technasia, ben sims, marco carola, umek, the advent, cristian vogel, oliver lieb, sven väth, alter ego, chris liebing, speedy j., adam beyer, cari lekebusch, henrik b, glenn wilson, ignition technician, dj rush, dj murphy, gayle san, d.a.v.e. the drummer, marco bailey, marco v., hardfloor, alexander kowalski, vitalic, slobodan, michael burkat & lars klein, marco remus, josh wink, dj koze, mauro picotto...
my favourites: glenn wilson (producer), jeff mills (dj)
Good list. Thats the stuff I think of when someone says techno.....someone said Paul Van Dyke earlier?!?!?
D.A.V.E. the drummer also releases under Henry Cullen.
Psytracked
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Posted : May 13, 2008 06:33
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On 2008-04-12 11:52, wi']['ch wrote:
It's very good that people have different opinions, but I'm sorry ---> you will never convince me that productions with FL and on-board sound-card could possibly to be compared with productions in fully equipped studio with high end da/ad, analog eq's/comps/sum's, proper monitoring/acoustic treatment. Let's compare in average how many psy vs techno producers have those studios? I'm afraid techno would be far away ahead. But please don't get me wrong, i really love psy for it's musical freedom...and that's why we are here ---> YEAHHHHH!
I'm into both techno and Psy. And yes I have searched the net to see what producers are using in these styles. With the exception of richie hawtin you are way off the mark.
http://www.whatacunt.co.uk/
-aeon-
Aeon
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Posted : May 13, 2008 10:52
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On 2008-04-11 19:19, wi']['ch wrote:
Cause in this world quality = money and i guess that's why money = better, common people let's face the truth, only with proper tools is possible to achieve good sounding mixes and this means it's needs many years of experience to know how to get most of it + tones of hardware processors which is regular psy artist can NOT afford and never will, i hope I'm wrong...
i believe you are wrong
check out Elad's track done entirely with free software... the rapid advances in CPU power and vst/i coding mean that the quality of plugins - free and paid for - is constantly increasing.
quality doth not always = money. you can spend money on very average hardware (entry-level dbx or alesis compressor, anyone?) and you can spend absolutely nothing on very good software (like REAPER, or Crystal2).
i agree with your point about experience - yes, this is very important. in fact it is far more important than shiny gear.
but i can't agree with the assertion that you need lots of money and lots of external hardware to achieve good sounding mixes. plenty of absolutely stunningly killer mixes have been done in home studios without external gear... in fact, i'd be willing to wager that the majority of psy producers don't have any external processors. many producers don't even have hardware synths.
i've yet to hear ANY techno which is as beautifully produced as Antix's remix of Reefer Decree's 'Curved Air', or Shakta's 'Tribal Wax EP'.
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but please open your eyes and see around --> tonnes of threads even on this board with thema labels not payed to artists or stolen trax or distributor stole all the money from sales and cd's LOL etc...this I've seen ONLY in the PSY scene,
i think every corner of the music industry, particularly at the lower levels, is full of shady characters and dodgy deals...
every band has a story about being ripped off by a promoter, or a label, or a distributor. it's practically part of the process, imo.
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and till this rubbish would exist in here, there is NO way that quality of psy productions (in average) would be higher than techno, which is btw has legal status in many countries and building up monsters clubs with handling up to 10000 people and i believe more (in Holland) on the gigs every weekend, also check Ibiza or UK <--- mega money man!
psytrance events in the UK have regularly pulled 5000 people to clubs. i don't know what you mean by 'legal status', but techno here in the UK usually means pretty underground music.
really though the number of people at a club night, the 'status' of a genre of music, the money involved - imho none of those factors have anything to do with the quality of the music being produced.
consider: classical music is dying in many countries. audiences are down, CD sales are down, funding is down. there are very few classical music 'stars' and very little money to be made. does this mean the music is badly made or recorded?
on the other hand, consider the money involved in producing a piece of shit track like The Cheeky Girls song 'touch my bum'. it was number 1 in the UK and the only lyrics are 'don't be shy, this is life, touch my bum'. seriously. it's about as musically valid and well put together as a vomit sandwich. but it made shitloads of money for a publishing company somewhere and the whole country listened to it.
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Paul van dyk, Carl cox, Scooter <--- this guys has much much more zer0s at them bank accounts than top psy producers, maybe cose of selling thousands of albums, eh?! And I'm not talking about those HOT chicks on those parties who drive people totally crazzZZy hehehe, well maybe it's only me LOL... who prefer to have nice "chat" with intelligent girl who take care about her self and going to parties to have fun, but not to kill her self with tonnes of drugs (probably to make her self to jump to the rhythm of "top psy sound" and mumbling where to get another lsd or pill to get even higher, so she can keep jumping) LOL...anyways I'm not trying to sell here techno as best productions of electronic music in the world, all i say that techno payed very much better than psy and this is genuine motivation and possibilities for artists to invest money to the equipment and produce better sounding mixes.
I LOVE PSY!
PEACE
this is where we disagree most fervently, i guess, because
a) i don't think money = quality
b) i don't think sales = quality
c) i don't think chicks = quality
PoM
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Posted : May 13, 2008 14:07
good production is subjective ... people are so used to hear over compressed music that they think it s good production, steril psytrance crytal clear... for lot of people it s very good production but it s sound like shit! it s just we are not used to hear something better cause no one have good studio with lot of analog gear in psytrance . with digital you can only aim to that crystal clear shit sound imo...so when you are used to only hear that ,some tracks with more dynamics,warmer ... could sound not as good for you cause you re not used to it ...
-aeon-
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Posted : May 13, 2008 15:39
i agree that there are pitfalls, PoM. and i definitely agree about production being subjective.
but the Shakta 'Tribal Wax' EP for instance - it's not 'cold', it's not over-compressed; it's not even that loud. but it is aurally stunning.
a Neve desk, a Manley EQ and a Crane Song compressor can still produce an over-compressed, harsh piece of shit recording. and to be honest i don't see that techno producers are much more likely than psytrance producers to use [insert expensive analogue gear here]. in fact, if anything, i'd wager that psy producers - with more instinctively instrumental music, and strong links to the ethno-vocal-instrumental chillout realm, are probably more likely to require mic pres and whatnot.
Adharaguy
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Posted : May 13, 2008 18:41
if the quality is better or not i don't now because i don't ear tecno. But if we analize the all picture, for me trance is most perfect electronic music that we have in the planet (no doubt).
Psytracked
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Posted : May 14, 2008 01:30
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On 2008-05-13 18:41, Adharaguy wrote:
if the quality is better or not i don't now because i don't ear tecno. But if we analize the all picture, for me trance is most perfect electronic music that we have in the planet (no doubt).
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Posted : May 14, 2008 02:36
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Techno is my favourite to mix/DJ.
yep, for me too. but i tried the style of mixing techno on some quite fast and weired psy stuff. it's awesome if there are almost no long breaks. you can't make this kind of long transitions and layering tracks but bringing in every 1-2 minutes a new track f***in' rocks.
Sixofour
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Posted : May 14, 2008 08:25
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On 2008-05-13 18:41, Adharaguy wrote:
if the quality is better or not i don't now because i don't ear tecno. But if we analize the all picture, for me trance is most perfect electronic music that we have in the planet (no doubt).
Electro-DrumNGoa-Dub is better than Trance.
gutter
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Posted : May 14, 2008 11:12
pardon me ,, but ,what the f@@ck is techno anyway .. music for drunk kids, meaningless ...
whats this ,, a debate ??
