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Is loudness all?
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~d2~
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 17:38
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On 2009-03-11 17:34, x-rayz wrote:
I dont make any sense of what u said, I stopped processing after second sentence..
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Who Mr x-rayz? |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 17:51
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~d2~
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 17:53
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That happens to me all the time. 
got to learn to type faster. |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 17:56
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~d2~
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 18:01
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On 2009-03-11 17:56, x-rayz wrote:
So we have a war on loudness war 
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There is no war. It's all in their heads 
The end user controls the "Loudness" |
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Fotis elf
Alchemix
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1
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 18:04
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There is no war. It's all in their heads
The end user controls the "Loudness"
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but not the dynamic range
 Soundcloud/Alchemix |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 18:04
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~d2~
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 18:14
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-11 18:04, Fotis elf wrote:
but not the dynamic range
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I am pretty sure you were shouting about "loudness"
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Fotis elf
Alchemix
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1
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70
Posted : Mar 11, 2009 18:27
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-11 18:14, ~d2~ wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-03-11 18:04, Fotis elf wrote:
but not the dynamic range
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I am pretty sure you were shouting about "loudness"
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yes cause the DR can show you how loud is the mix at the first place,how much you are going to crank the volume up it's an other story..you can see how "loud" is a track if you compare,with the volume at your amp at the same level
Soundcloud/Alchemix |
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~d2~
Inactive User
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 18:49
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Quote:
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On 2009-03-11 18:27, Fotis elf wrote:
yes cause the DR can show you how loud is the mix at the first place,how much you are going to crank the volume up it's an other story..you can see how "loud" is a track if you compare,with the volume at your amp at the same level
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I am sorry my friend but you have mis-understood what loudness actually is. It is this mis-understanding that is at the root of the problem.
The engineer (both mix and master) control the dynamics or crest and in relation to 0dBFS. This is not the same as loudness. In fact it has nothing to do with loudness. Technically the engineer can if they want to manipulate the EQ with regards to the loudness contours of the ear but that would produce an out of balance mix. Most people don't want that.
Loudness is subjective and not an objective measurement anyway. It varies from person to person and the different weightings that are applied for measuring are based upon these averages.
The mix engineer does not make it louder. they can effect the spectral balance and dynamics and the RMS level in relation to 0dBFS but not the loudness.
The end user controls this. It is really that simple. Dynamics and loudness are not the same thing. A mastering engineer can make a track less dynamic (upon request) and bring the RMS value close to 0dBFS, but they don't make anything louder.
Lets just think about some playback scenarios:
Sat at my computer now. I put a CD in and adjust the volume accordingly. I decide how loud. My girlfriend is cooking in the kitchen and want to hear. I turn it up and make it louder for her. Not the mastering engineer.
Later on I might want to listen to some ambient music before I got to bed. I will not want it very loud like when I am having a party. Again I (the end user) will set the loudness.
Now in a club or party the DJ will match the levels of the tracks they wish to mix (it doesn't sound very good if one is much louder than the other when you bring it in). They will use the mixer to help them do this. They will however have to work within the limitations set by the engineer/technician.
Loudness is set by the end user. That's why we have the volume knob. We have always had a means of volume control. We still do. And we all still use it. |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 19:29
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Fotis elf
Alchemix
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1
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 20:18
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x-rayz,my friend we are saying the same thing here..but imo you are confusing things a bit.
i was never referring on how loud you are going to put your stereo at home..that's an other thing
and it's not subjective anyway,you can measure it precisely with a decibel meter (or how is called in english) subjective is the way a person perceives it (one can be deaf)
we talk about the loudness and dynamic range WITHIN the mix...the mastering engineer is the one that is going to set that!
if he aims loudness,he will squash the mix at 0db,will look like a brick,will be loud,but breathless,no space for the mix to breath
take a look again here http://www.dynamicrange.de/en/faqtech-info
for example if you take two different cds(or a cd and a vinyl) put them at your cdjs,adjust gain,fader,eq to be exactly the same,you will notice that most
probably one sounds louder than the other (if they are not both brick walled at 0db)
that's way the dj has to take care of the gain at his mixer's input channels
THIS is the "loudness" we talk about!
check also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
Soundcloud/Alchemix |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 11, 2009 20:39
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nah, dont worry, I dig u and D2 both, just happen to be in the cross-fire 
Its all good if u make your track as loud as you can without loosing quality.. DR is also subjective and relative cause on the climaxes and breakdown its lot bigger.. So this way u can still have track with big dynamic range while being hot in the main parts.. That kind of mastering is often used in tracks meant for broadcasting on radio..
http://www.facebook.com/xrayzproductions
http://www.myspace.com/xrayzproductions |
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Fotis elf
Alchemix
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
70
Posted : Mar 11, 2009 20:44
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ooops,sorry x-rayz, i was replying to ~d2~ 
Soundcloud/Alchemix |
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x-rayz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
576
Posted : Mar 11, 2009 20:50
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