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Is loudness all?
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Sep 29, 2004 23:34
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What do u think? Do u want ur music loud as possible or isn't it important for u?
I found this interesting site:
http://www.loudnessrace.net/
I like music loud but not loud as possible 
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Sep 30, 2004 00:43
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We are getting more deaf in our older age and require louder music with less dynamics..
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Reconstructed
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
166
Posted : Sep 30, 2004 00:58
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Dance music is particularly suspect. Most producers compress things far too much and too many subsequent times. Then some even compress the final mix and then in mastering it is compressed even more.
Sounds like shit to me. No dynamics... they just want it to sound loud on the big systems. |
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Meta
Meta/Boomslang
Started Topics :
24
Posts :
1045
Posted : Sep 30, 2004 04:11
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Hee hee! That site is great
I like where things are generally at now in professional tracks... while I certainly don't like overblasted stuff a certain level of consistancy is very neccessary for good DJing.
Go back and listen to old Goa tracks and watch how stuff peaks... its all over the place. I think that's great for certain kinds of downtempo or whatever but trance needs some of these crazy scratchy sounds to get reigned in by compressors.
It's easy to overdo it too, I've definately made some tracks that seem to visually peak at the same level as other tracks I'm preparing to mix into, then mine is way too in-your-face. Anyway a lot of the good guidelines I've read here suggest not having the L2 go over 3dB of reduction...
Any votes out there on professional tracks that are over/undercompressed?
http://soundcloud.com/aeon604
http://www.metaekstasis.com/
http://the1134.com/ |
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Triptocoma
Inactive User
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
296
Posted : Sep 30, 2004 17:54
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EYB - thanks,
great site.. im going to study it  |
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orik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
317
Posted : Oct 1, 2004 21:42
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today if you analys cds such as...
ricky martin (tfooy, yuck  , sorry
for putting this name here...) youl here
see the signal is distorted, and you can even here it...its a bit silly because
its loud as hell but with all the limiting it becomes a distorted signal... |
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 1, 2004 22:07
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I'm only starting to produce music but why signal should be clean ? |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
90
Posts :
2268
Posted : Oct 1, 2004 22:07
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Dado's last two albums are so overcompressed that it sounds like total rubbish already, and if you compress your track enough and use a rolling bassline, any full-on label will release your music.
This is one of the reasons why for the most part psytrance is nothing more than a DJ tool today.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 1, 2004 22:09
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Kaz , how you know if something is overcompressed ?
How can i hear it and what i need to hear ? |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Oct 1, 2004 23:04
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There is a point here - but keeping the entire thing at -6db while there are a few peaks at 0 here and there is pointless, and wouldn't sound good too.
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
355
Posted : Oct 2, 2004 22:04
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2005? Shit, I'm ahead of schedule!
With respect to individual project tracks, (not stereo mixes,) IMO there is no such thing as too much compression or limiting in dance music. PA speakers are Duplo, they respond to only the broadest of brush strokes. In dance music, more often than not, dynamics equate to mud and a weak sound, and compression equates to clarity, and often power.
The WAV files being complained about are usually bad arrangements, or they have been compressed poorly, usually in the mastering phase. The RUSH album everyone complains about comes to mind. The mastering engineer obviously fucked that one up. Yeah, it sounds like shit. But bands like Spirallianz manage to get their music up to -10dB or -9dB mean RMS, and it still sounds great...so maybe it's just a case of people not knowing what they're doing.
"Limiters don't kill music, PEOPLE kill music."
That site is probably part of that purist movement (mostly online jazz/classical biased mastering engineers) who are bitter about losing so much business to project studios, so they sit around writing nostalgic essays about the glory days of annoyingly uncompressed, peaky pop music. The old sound is a crap sound, IMO.
"Loudness wars" complaints are really irrelevant to dance music. Undercompress in ambient or trip hop? Maybe, as an effect. Also in emo. But in full on dance music? No. In fact, roll on the new tools that allow me to compress even more.
From the site:
"Whereas Californication's RMS levels would peak at 4db, with Raw Power 4db WAS the average RMS level of the music. 10db was the loudest most any CD was allowed to go in the late '90s, making Raw Power TWICE as loud as the hot masters of that era."
Ok I will concede, -4dB mean RMS is WAY TOO LOUD. If you're under -8dB, that had better be a damn fine arrangement for it to work at all.
I wonder how much lower it will go? I think it's kind of funny. Each song has its own ideal RMS. Finding it is the skill. Forcing it is amateur. I wonder if they will eventually get songs into 1 decibel. Perhaps white noise? |
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 3, 2004 01:40
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Orik and Kaz i'm still waiting for answer from you only on subject i have asked. |
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
Posts :
3918
Posted : Oct 3, 2004 03:37
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i can answer to you dimitri
iff you had made a nice metallic sound drum like and you wanted it loud but very clean and crispy you would hate iff i was mastering it and and cos of my try to pump the rest of the track louder i would squash so much your crispy metallic sound with my comp and limiter that it would be very distorded in the end i dont think you will like that
but the rest of the track would pump the pa like kanon balls in a war
orange
http://www.landmark-recordings.com/
http://soundcloud.com/kymamusic |
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Dimitri
Inactive User
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
229
Posted : Oct 3, 2004 08:28
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Kaz and Orik are your explanation is the same as Orange's ? |
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orik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
317
Posted : Oct 3, 2004 14:41
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dimitri as for your question:
you want a signal to be clean (unless you
dont want the sound itself to be dirty)
for clarity, and as many channels you have
that are compressed and limited till distortion, when youl mix them the song will
sound distorted, as for what brod sayd:
first of all in pro tools today you can
detect the rms of anything!
second i agree about full on dance music that dynamics may be percieved as a weak
signal, and proparly compressed signals
are percieved as loud and clear, but yet...
it has to be in the limits of keeping abit
of dynamics in the compressed signals meaning
not getting to distortion wich is percieved as a harsh sound especialy if its not supposed to be there. and that messes up the clarity as well... |
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