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is it all compromise?
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jul 10, 2007 13:52
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i figured therer is no "best" sound.
seems there is always compromise
if u want lots of air u loose some rms power
if u want "open bass" good chanses that it will get dirty with your leads...
not even gonna start mention kick and bass , its allready seems peaple dont even place bass noted on the 1...
mixing , am i making it for radio or dancefloors ? obviously diffrent treatment gonna sound better according how and for what u make it...
what u think ?
  www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Trip-
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
3239
Posted : Jul 10, 2007 15:09
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Younger brother and Shpongle usually sounds good anywhere I heard... so go figure. you might be right too
Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA |
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shachar
Basic
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
402
Posted : Jul 10, 2007 16:47
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i think that there is a "perfect" mix!
for me perfect mix is a well balanced one and wide open.
dont know what you mean by "open bass" but i dont see the connection to dirty lead...
...evert tune got his flavour, it cant be all @ once but if you check comercial stuff like hip hop and pop production youll be amazed by the top mixes, much more bass than you ever imagine you can add to a track and still mix all thing right..
but good |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 03:57
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If I make a bass sound that is so good it HAS to be heard I may just play it by itself for a couple of bars. Likewise with anything else. But it's definately all compromise. You just have to know where to draw the line. Definately the hardest decision to make. |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 06:10
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dude, really, F-M curves FTW.
with the whole bass sound, what really makes me laugh is people cutting the individual bass part below the fundamental.
er hello?
When you have a waveform, it has a fundamental frequency, which is not that hard to establish. Nothing, in the bass instrument occurs below that frequency. Yet time and time again, I see people suggesting that cutting at 30ish hz is a good thing to do - let me tell anyone reading, this is patently rubbish.
What is happening when you cut at 30ish hz is that the slope of the cut is actually well above 30 hz, and you are reducing the volume of the fundamental in the waveform - another way of saying that the sub is too strong is that there is not enough top end in the bass, or the amplitude envelope is incorrectly set. A problem that would be better off getting sorted out at the synthesis stage, rather then EQing it and introducing phase distortion.
Note, this is not about the whole mix, just when people suggest that the bass part as an individual instrument needs cutting at very low freqs.
In a nutshell, the bass cannot need cutting below the fundamental of the waveform, because there cannot be anything there (unless of course you are using a self oscillating filter resonance setting, in which case, I suggest you think twice about what you are doing and why!)
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http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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TuK
TuK
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
228
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 10:30
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-11 06:10, Speakafreaka wrote:
dude, really, F-M curves FTW.
with the whole bass sound, what really makes me laugh is people cutting the individual bass part below the fundamental.
er hello?
When you have a waveform, it has a fundamental frequency, which is not that hard to establish. Nothing, in the bass instrument occurs below that frequency. Yet time and time again, I see people suggesting that cutting at 30ish hz is a good thing to do - let me tell anyone reading, this is patently rubbish.
What is happening when you cut at 30ish hz is that the slope of the cut is actually well above 30 hz, and you are reducing the volume of the fundamental in the waveform - another way of saying that the sub is too strong is that there is not enough top end in the bass, or the amplitude envelope is incorrectly set. A problem that would be better off getting sorted out at the synthesis stage, rather then EQing it and introducing phase distortion.
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i dont know if i understude you well, but if your saying that there is no point cutting the subs because there's nothing below the fundamental then thats rubish. take a spectrum analyser put it on the bass track and you can see that the fundamental is somewhere in the 100Hz region (depends on the note) and that there are freq well below that. |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
779
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 10:31
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wrong, wrong, wrong.
you have misunderstood what the spectrum analyzer is telling you.
configure it correctly, and you will see that there is nothng below the fundamental - these things have focus, a bit like the lens of a camera you know?
think - how can there be anything to EQ on the bass instrument below the fundamental frequency of the bass? (would also suggest you are running your basses an octave high if you main sub peak is the 100hzish region - my personal preference though) .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 11:15
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-11 06:10, Speakafreaka wrote:
dude, really, F-M curves FTW.
with the whole bass sound, what really makes me laugh is people cutting the individual bass part below the fundamental.
er hello?
When you have a waveform, it has a fundamental frequency, which is not that hard to establish. Nothing, in the bass instrument occurs below that frequency. Yet time and time again, I see people suggesting that cutting at 30ish hz is a good thing to do - let me tell anyone reading, this is patently rubbish.
What is happening when you cut at 30ish hz is that the slope of the cut is actually well above 30 hz, and you are reducing the volume of the fundamental in the waveform - another way of saying that the sub is too strong is that there is not enough top end in the bass, or the amplitude envelope is incorrectly set. A problem that would be better off getting sorted out at the synthesis stage, rather then EQing it and introducing phase distortion.
Note, this is not about the whole mix, just when people suggest that the bass part as an individual instrument needs cutting at very low freqs.
In a nutshell, the bass cannot need cutting below the fundamental of the waveform, because there cannot be anything there (unless of course you are using a self oscillating filter resonance setting, in which case, I suggest you think twice about what you are doing and why!)
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-1 !
this is completley missleading 
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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TuK
TuK
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
228
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 11:32
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o.k. i ckecked it again and your right the fundemental is really in the sub range which is really surprising to me. i cheked a bass which jumps between octaves so thats what confused me. |
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Soul Kontakt
Soul Kontakt
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
632
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 12:30
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it's all about balance...whatever you put in a mix it effects all the other sounds...The trick is eq everything so everything sounds together as possible...Eq the sounds to make them sound the way you want them to sound clean and together!
Boom :)
SOUL KONTAKT - 12th Planet new track on www.myspace.com/soulkontakt
Soul Kontakt Live for demo or booking email soulkontakt@hotmail.com
www.soulkontakt.com |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 12:45
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 13:08
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if the track is not well balanced you have more compromise for sure,what helped me is to a/b my tracks with some well produced one (not psytrance ,try some good dnb,it help a lot to get the compression right too) |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 14:01
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Quote:
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On 2007-07-11 06:10, Speakafreaka wrote:
dude, really, F-M curves FTW.
with the whole bass sound, what really makes me laugh is people cutting the individual bass part below the fundamental.
er hello?
When you have a waveform, it has a fundamental frequency, which is not that hard to establish. Nothing, in the bass instrument occurs below that frequency. Yet time and time again, I see people suggesting that cutting at 30ish hz is a good thing to do - let me tell anyone reading, this is patently rubbish.
What is happening when you cut at 30ish hz is that the slope of the cut is actually well above 30 hz, and you are reducing the volume of the fundamental in the waveform - another way of saying that the sub is too strong is that there is not enough top end in the bass, or the amplitude envelope is incorrectly set. A problem that would be better off getting sorted out at the synthesis stage, rather then EQing it and introducing phase distortion.
Note, this is not about the whole mix, just when people suggest that the bass part as an individual instrument needs cutting at very low freqs.
In a nutshell, the bass cannot need cutting below the fundamental of the waveform, because there cannot be anything there (unless of course you are using a self oscillating filter resonance setting, in which case, I suggest you think twice about what you are doing and why!)
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you are touching very confusing subject.
well , need perfectly acoustic room and monitor system with sub woofer , then i can answer.
till now i sometime do it sometimes not , u defintly cant ignore how much more power u get to your mid bass area if u cut the sub.
for example , if i make the mix for radio its useless to have lots of sub.. here is first example , mix for club or radio ?
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 15:35
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i can not believe some prompt artists are writing wat i really can call ignorance about the actuall equipment .
wat Soul Kontakt says in his post correct.
for Tsabi : Did metallica mix for radio or PA ?
Its all about wat sounds right to u , If u think the mix is good , Stand wit it .the worst thing to do is stand at a console wit 500 ppl dancing to u and make a fucked up face cos u heard a lead sounding muddy !!!
See if it sounds good to u , Believe me its sounding good to a moajority of ppl 
Is it a Compromise ?? No way !!! |
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shachar
Basic
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
402
Posted : Jul 11, 2007 17:31
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funamental of bass is usually between 40hz to 60hz depands on the note and scale.
about very low freq...if the bass note is at 49hz so it does not supposed to have freq` below but still you add EQ and compressor to make your bass phatter and after it sometime you have to much sub so youll cut it a little bit.
sometimes the Eq high pass is used for pushing the bass farward (upward) and not just cutting low freq.
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