*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 07:18
ok well. Can someone explain what is so appealing to the masses about THIS that makes her a millionaire.
I've been hearing the same shitty "business strategy" for nearly 20years. 'ace of base' forever!
Skoocha
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
68
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 09:32
ok well. Can someone explain what is so appealing to the masses about THIS that makes her a millionaire.
I've been hearing the same shitty "business strategy" for nearly 20years. 'ace of base' forever!
funny how you picked up on somebody mainstream that actually as consistency
believe it or not
this young lady is certainly a genius if not at pop music
at marketing surely
she can sings her ass off and plays great piano...
i don't really play this music everyday unless i'm exposed to it
but well...
i'd take her album anytime over any Infected mushroom recent tracks for example
at least she seems true to her own image...which is crazy and sometimes more psychedelic
than most of the record covers we see around here...http://www.myspace.com/skoocha
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 10:30
Colin - I think that your approach of taking music construction and composition to be completely subjective processes, prevents you from being able to discuss and assess objective measures about those processes which are common to all music forms, like quantifying rhythm and studying what kind of effects it (or its lack )has on people, same thing with continuity, contrast, structure, balance, arrangement.
Just because music is indeed subjective, doesnt mean it has no objectively applicable properties, and its composition cant be objectively discussed, analysed and conform to some kind of objective standards of internal consistency.
Denying that music, despite its subjectivity, can be analysed and quantified with objective concepts, removes a great deal of already established very valuable tools from the awareness of the noobs and serious discussion. Also it restricts people who look up to you from being able to discuss it in those terms, and I think that this aspect is severly lacking.
I dont share your "reinvent the wheel" every time, like as if every wormlings creations are profoundly valuable, philosophy at all.
Anyway.. just a thought.
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 11:43
[quote]
On 2010-03-03 09:32, Skoocha wrote:
Quote:
funny how you picked up on somebody mainstream that actually as consistency
believe it or not
this young lady is certainly a genius if not at pop music
at marketing surely
she can sings her ass off and plays great piano...
i don't really play this music everyday unless i'm exposed to it
but well...
i'd take her album anytime over any Infected mushroom recent tracks for example
at least she seems true to her own image...which is crazy and sometimes more psychedelic
than most of the record covers we see around here...
please do not use the words POP and GENIUS in the same sentence.
+ that clap is probably the most overused business advertisement ever. it still sells... millions
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 12:05
Inner Demon - I think its not the art that becomes obsolete, its the style which falls out of trend and the artist.
Its the artist who has to compete with other artists for ears, and they do this by appealing to the audience in such a way as to give them what they want (a nice immersion) but in a new way.
Once people commit a pattern to memory then it no longer stimulates a response. It has to be new and changing to get a response, so long as the new pattern is not already in memory.
That is the challenge of an artist, to predict what the public will accept and give it to them by constantly reinventing themself. The moment they stop thats when they become irrelevant except for to the nostalgic.
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 12:52
bukboy,
can you not see the correlation of my posts to the thread. or are you ignoring it for the sake of continuing this debate.
The same formula has been used in the POP genre for many years and still the public eats it up like hot pancakes.
It is hard to find prodigies in music these days, i know, but there is still some barrier breakers out there.
You can take comfort in that not all of us are programed followers but some are leaders to a new way. like, rip van hippy, mr.peculiar and many others i wish i'd known.
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 13:14
and of course i would copy ideas like 4x4 kick patterns. that makes for good trance induction
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 13:14
I disagree with your point of view, ElisDee, that pop is bad. I look at art as being generated by evolution not spiritual or technical superiority of a minority viewpoint.
Ultimately the point of music is to help people live, improve their life somehow, and the artists task is to engage them, not project his ideologies onto them. (and music theory is less an ideology than an objective tool)
Ultimately an entertainer is a manipulator, who makes people part with their money, and he does this by providing them with something pleasant.
What that pleasant thing is doesnt matter specifically because it always changes. What it achieves is important.
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
671
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 13:27
anyways,
the theme of; rmb , hip hop, rap and pop these days are always about the same shit -> MY car, MY crib, MY ho, MY bling,, ego shit.
at least we have an alternative. psytrance
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 13:37
eLliSDee - Oh.
But generally I just wanted to start a conversation about the necessity of change in music. Granted that I cant force the next big thing, but I am trying to get people to see that there is no F'ing way to make the next big thing by copying everyone else. Its the most self sabotage you can do to yourself and your scene.
I would like people to stop focusing on concrete things like how to make a kick and bass, and start to look at why they work as they do and how that could be changed.
A new set of values. Change = good. the same = bad.
vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 13:54
ok well. Can someone explain what is so appealing to the masses about THIS that makes her a millionaire.
I've been hearing the same shitty "business strategy" for nearly 20years. 'ace of base' forever!
Seamoon
Seamoon
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
314
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 14:02
Quote:
On 2010-03-03 13:14, bukboy wrote:
Ultimately the point of music is to help people live, improve their life somehow, and the artists task is to engage them, not project his ideologies onto them.
you really think that..? there is no task for an artist....free your mind and do what you deeply feels inside yourself, you're not responsible with your music for anything....that people like your music and get good feelings is just a nice sideeffect of it...but making music for other people is just bullshit imho...be an egoist as an artist and do what YOU want....
http://soundcloud.com/seamoon
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 14:15
Seamoon - I meant famous/respected artist, not nobody. Sorry for the confusion.
Not really into the guys who bounce their ball against the wall and call it a form of art.
I mean something that more people than 4 respect.
Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 14:30
Quote:
On 2010-03-03 10:30, bukboy wrote:
Colin - I think that your approach of taking music construction and composition to be completely subjective processes, prevents you from being able to discuss and assess objective measures about those processes which are common to all music forms, like quantifying rhythm and studying what kind of effects it (or its lack )has on people, same thing with continuity, contrast, structure, balance, arrangement.
Just because music is indeed subjective, doesnt mean it has no objectively applicable properties, and its composition cant be objectively discussed, analysed and conform to some kind of objective standards of internal consistency.
Denying that music, despite its subjectivity, can be analysed and quantified with objective concepts, removes a great deal of already established very valuable tools from the awareness of the noobs and serious discussion. Also it restricts people who look up to you from being able to discuss it in those terms, and I think that this aspect is severly lacking.
I can't see that the ideas of 'objective musical concepts' and 'context-independant effects of music' is anything other than bullshit. Everything is contextual, mediated and contingent.
Would Rite of Spring provoke a riot now? No. Does my dad get goosebumps when he hears Mahadeva by Astral Projection? No. Would the average audience for Handel's Messiah get up and dance if someone dropped a 4/4 kick on it? No. Rhythm, structure, melody, timbre... the effects of all these are totally dependant on context.
bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 14:54
Colin - wow. why are you so deliberately trying to misunderstand me?
if a piece of music contains rhythm then you can say well you can make it go faster or slower or swing it or stutter it, make it lose rhythm, make it more predictable or whatever. Point is that all these concepts exist, coz u can understand what I meant, therefore they shouldnt be ignored in criticisms or commentary.
Same thing with contrast. either the thing changes or it doesnt. does it surprise you when it does? doesnt it? These things do exist.
how to create anticipation, suspense. These concepts create measurable effects in people and therefore are objective.
I dont get why ur so against promoting a much needed change towards greater musical insight by emphasiszing the need for much overlooked but well established, well documented, collectively understood knowledge, which no-one in the scene seems to realise is critically important for decent productions.
