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Insight from the world of business for psy
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 13:21:13
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Hi All
I have recently become aware that in the modern world, no business can continue doing its business plan in its exact state for more than a few years, because competitors are constantly coming up with new better ideas.
So change has to be an implicit part of any organisation for its very survival.
Now this seems very much at odds with the psy scene, where everyone learns from everyone else how to do the same basic thing.
No modifications no innovation.
Do you guys feel that this is true? not true? and why it Does/Does Not matter? |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 13:37
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unfortunately in trance scene its the oposite (in music) yet very true as business idea for anything (such as labels)
sad that once you make the new music people are so against it since it doesnt fit to specific sub genre they look for www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Seamoon
Seamoon
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
314
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 14:36
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lol always the same boring discussion....make your thing as long as your happy with it....if you start to get bored...do other things....easy isn't it ?
my 'a little bit pissed off' 2 cents about these kind of questions ;-)
http://soundcloud.com/seamoon |
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geekhorde
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
207
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 14:43
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doing something well, even though everyone else seems to already know how to do the same thing competently, is still a good thing.
frankly, i find the constant neophilia that some people seem to fixate on, almost like a fetish, very tiresome.
if i can learn from what other people are doing, good. but i'm unconcerned about what music other people may or may not be making. i make the music i make. if i'm happy with it, good for me. if not, c'est la vie.
(and actually, the best businesses stay true to their mission statements, and rather than dilute their brand, continue to do what they do, but do it well. but that's a whole other discussion.) |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 15:29
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Before I even knew what I was doing I told people that they should stop trying to copy sounds/styles from other artists.
I do agree that there is a lack of innovation, but at the same time it's difficult to do something different and still make it good (it's easy to make something different and shitty though). Maybe we should start a thread for people to make a different style of music?
I've been thinking about trying to cross some genres- psychedelic dubstep, psy techno, whatever else- see what comes of that and keep moving further out.... Anyone else got some ideas? Maybe we should start talking in more specific terms because threads like this are constantly posted yet nothing gets done because most people only speak in theoretical terms rather than doing something about it.
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 16:32
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Well in the same fashion as in business, the guy who gets the good idea, gets the customers and the cash. Doesn't happen when you try do the same thing everyone else is, and then tell everyone else how to copy you.  |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 16:39
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Quote:
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On 2010-03-02 16:32, bukboy wrote:
Well in the same fashion as in business, the guy who gets the good idea, gets the customers and the cash. Doesn't happen when you try do the same thing everyone else is, and then tell everyone else how to copy you.
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But not giving a specific suggestion is about the same as not saying anything about the topic at all. I'm saying that we can sit here and talk about how psytrance isn't getting any more unique, or we could come up with ways to do something about it...
At the same time, maybe what someone is making isn't new and innovative, but if it sounds good and they enjoy doing it I see no harm. If people actually disliked something it would be easier to move onto something else, however there are plenty of people out there who love listening to and making the same sounds. http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 19:00
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Quote:
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On 2010-03-02 16:32, bukboy wrote:
Well in the same fashion as in business, the guy who gets the good idea, gets the customers and the cash. Doesn't happen when you try do the same thing everyone else is, and then tell everyone else how to copy you.
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art /= business
Selling art = business
A truly creative person can give people all the techniques they have to make whatever art they make, but the student will never be able to apply them in the same way as the teacher. It is the individual's own unique creativity that turns those sterile techniques into a work worth appreciating.
If you're afraid of handing on your techniques it tells me you're afraid that those techniques are all you have - that your craft (not worth calling it art if there's no individual creativity in it) and - more relevantly for those who want to be recognised for what they do - other's appreciation of your work compared to that produced by others, is dependant on you being the only one to posess the tools that let you make music.
I'm more than happy to tell people exactly which techniques I use, because I know I have something I can never give anyone even if I tried - the inspiration, ideas and 25+ years of hard work with music technology that lets me use those techniques to create something that is absolutely unique to me.
The 'business of psy' is the same as the business of anything.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 20:16
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Colin - music theory is also a set of techniques, and I don't think people with theory awareness show any more creativity, just a wider technique vocabulary. But the music sounds a lot more consistent with more integrity. (not to mention more inspired and possibly in another sense almost self contradictingly more creative) ANd opens up new avenues for exploration.
why don't you stress that more? share with people an overall understanding instead of just the easy production techniques?
Sorry Im not making myself any clearer. |
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Sanathana
Sanathana
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
410
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 20:19
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http://forum.isratrance.com/sanathana-the-album-puppets-coming-soon/41-158713/
When i planned on not making sub projects with different styles of psy or just plain EDM, a lot of so called hardcore psy followers criticized me.... Furthermore, I am releasing an album with various styles of psy / dub / ambient all in one album under the same project name 'Sanathana'....
Again, many so called psy followers who apparently have been in the so called SCENE for years, said this is not a good idea and not many producers do this because they want the listeners to relate to one style per project...... Call me a rebel but i dont agree with that.....
End of the day 100 project names for various projects or just ONE project for 100 styles of EDM / Psy, what difference does it make? People know eventually.....
Taking all this into consideration i still decided to go on with my album with various styles of psy in it..... fingers crossed now
Just my thoughts
PLUR,
S
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sanathana.swaroop
http://www.soundcloud.com/sanathana | http://www.facebook.com/sanathana.psy
Labels Associated with: Samana Records | Geomagnetic | Triptec | Independent Mind | SkyGravity | Goatrance.pl | Psytr |
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Nabijlufe
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
19
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 20:39
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"I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me"
-I.Newton
'nuf said?
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 20:42
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Quote:
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On 2010-03-02 20:16, bukboy wrote:
Colin - music theory is also a set of techniques, and I don't think people with theory awareness show any more creativity, just a wider technique vocabulary. But the music sounds a lot more consistent with more integrity. (not to mention more inspired and possibly in another sense almost self contradictingly more creative) ANd opens up new avenues for exploration.
why don't you stress that more? share with people an overall understanding instead of just the easy production techniques?
Sorry Im not making myself any clearer.
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Why should I? Firstly you've just stressed the point for me (with some caveats, see below) and secondly I teach what I feel I can pass on best, and while I can play a few musical instruments I wouldn't know where to start with teaching them to people. Besides, there are a million and one music theory and instrumental tutors out there who do a fine job - I work with some of them in my dayjob.
My reservations on your last post are to do with the objectivity you assume over a subject which is inherently subjective - that of the musical integrity of different styles, and their relative degrees of creativity and scope for exploration. It's arrogant to assume one's own taste is somehow 'correct' or has more integrity, as the style of music one makes has nothing necessarily to do with how creative you are. Electronic tools allow the broadening of the musical palette beyond the traditional variables of pitch, tone, dynamics and rhythm to encompass timbre; those working with unpitched 'noise' music can be as creative and as exploratory as any more classically-minded composer, whether one enjoys listening to their music oneself or not. This is why, when people send me their music to comment on, I don't mention the writing itself but concentrate on the technical aspects, as to assume I know what is 'good' and 'bad' in music is the height of arrogance - and my personal opinion of someone else's work should be irrelevant as I'm no more educated a listener to other people's music than you are. And even on technical matters I try and make it clear that all I can offer is my own opinion, not some 'fact' carved in stone.
Sanathana: Go for it mate. Express yourself however you want. We did something very similar to you with our last two albums, and put a wide range of styles on each one. If such an album of ours can be reviewed as 'one of the best psytrance releases of the year', then it's quite possible a similarly free-ranging album of yours can also be well-received. If you're really putting your heart into your music, whatever you make will sound like you no matter what the style. From the beginning, Psy/Goa trance always emphasised breaking down borders - think "Definition is Limitation"; it's like that Mandela quote, you do the world no good by hiding your light.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Sanathana
Sanathana
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
410
Posted : Mar 2, 2010 21:06
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Colin, thanx mate....
Just some food for thought:
I strongly believe in FREEDOM of expression and most countries lack this due to political or religious barriers..... why create these barriers for MUSIC? Music and Art have no boundaries in terms of expression.... Feel free to break them, express yourself freely and whole heartedly.
Show how genuine a music lover you really are by buying the compilations and albums.... I can guarantee you that almost every artist / producer / composer is genuine in his / her creation..... Support them and their creativity....... BUY THEIR MUSIC !!! - Motivate them so they give you much more.
PLUR,
S
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/sanathana.swaroop
http://www.soundcloud.com/sanathana | http://www.facebook.com/sanathana.psy
Labels Associated with: Samana Records | Geomagnetic | Triptec | Independent Mind | SkyGravity | Goatrance.pl | Psytr |
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Inner Demon
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
321
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 00:24
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Quote:
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On 2010-03-02 13:21:13, bukboy wrote:
Hi All
I have recently become aware that in the modern world, no business can continue doing its business plan in its exact state for more than a few years, because competitors are constantly coming up with new better ideas.
So change has to be an implicit part of any organisation for its very survival.
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Yet its the hardest thing to devise strategies for and even more so, to put into action. I know what I'm talking about because this is what I do for a living.
Now any business in a market economy (of varying degrees of course) must satisfy a need in the market, or else it serves no purpose and will cease to exist. This drives change from an external perspective (through competition) as you point out. New products and services constantly makes old ones obsolete. But I'm afraid this is in no way analogous to music.
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Now this seems very much at odds with the psy scene, where everyone learns from everyone else how to do the same basic thing.
No modifications no innovation.
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Since when did new music make old music bad/obsolete/unusable? Art is not subject to comptetition for survival in that sense. Isn't that what is so beautiful and timeless about it, and why the percieved height of civilizations are judged based on how well they explored the arts, rather than military conquests or what the standard of living was?
Not saying I don't like innovation in music, just that it isn't triggered by the same mechanisms... |
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braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Mar 3, 2010 06:59
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I think its more fruitfull to only discuss music as a product for a discussion like this.
With that said you can't conduct business in a vacuum. We don't have very good infrastructure to run a psytrance business, especially on the marketting side.
It also doesn't help this culture is pretty anti business in general.
Take this useless flashing "place your banner here!" thing at the top...perfect place to market an album...hardly anyone bothers making something eye catching when they do buy advertisements on here, you click on the banner itself and it gives you nothing about how much it costs to advertise..
Whole scene is pretty much a mess when it comes to any of this stuff.
To me the only smart thing in the whole scene is saiko's featured album thing, which i assume people pay to get on there. |
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