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If your master is clipping, will putting a gain plugin to reduce volume stop it clipping?
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 31, 2013 13:58
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 31, 2013 16:03
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On 2013-12-31 13:58, Babaluma wrote:
all DAWs these days work with floating point arithmetic, so just lowering the master fader should work to stop the main output clipping. but yes, that may not stop overloaded plugins on individual tacks earlier in the chain.
the questions are all academic, as i repeat, there is absolutely no need to be anywhere near 0dBfs EVER, AND your mixes will sound better for it. win/win.
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^ academic! |
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Upavas
Upavas
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Posted : Jan 1, 2014 16:45
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On 2013-12-30 23:18, Suloo wrote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:18, Zohan wrote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:10, Upavas wrote:
You can reduce the volume of the master channel without any loss whatsoever in the mix stage!
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Thanks, this is what I was wondering about.
Cheers for the rest of responses 
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i do not agree on this actualy..if you just lower the master of a clipping input, you just lower an already distorted signal..not a good idea imo..
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I thought he meant clipping only on the master. Agreed, if you have clipping in a channel other than the master and it distorts, you should lower the channels volume if the clipping becomes audible. Do however keep in mind that most daws work at 32 bit so even if you are in the red it might not necessarily distort just yet...
 Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jan 1, 2014 17:17
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All major DAWs these days using floating point math in their mix engines. This gives you more than 1500dB headroom OVER 0dBFS. The only time overloads become a problem (other than in fixed-point plugins) is after the master fader, where the signals are converted to fixed-point audio that we can actually hear. This applies to individual channels as well as the mix bus. If you really want to you can mix with every channel's overload light solid red, and as long as you reduce the master fader so that it doesn't clip, your mix will be as pristine as if you were mixing more sensibly :-P If you do that however, you'll be doing what, in technical terms, would be known in the trade as 'mixing like a twat'.
Happy New Year, by the way!
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jan 1, 2014 18:49
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Jan 1, 2014 22:11
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 2, 2014 17:49
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usually it's 32 bit floating point on most hosts. a lot of dynamic range indeed.
but mixing lower is a good idea anyways, since you will have to reduce the bit depth of your mix when you're done and bounce down the audio file for mastering - where available headroom will be a factor. leaving at least 6dBFS for mastering stage is paramount. of course you can get this output by simply lowering the master channel... don't mix to low either as noise to signal ratio will be a factor. this is important if you're recording external gear...
think it's a good idea to have some values in mind you don't want to exceed for each group. you know, like: how loud should your leads, hats and so on, be? getting a loud mix is more about saving headroom, then pushing stuff into the red zone imo.
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jan 3, 2014 00:02
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On 2014-01-02 17:49, frisbeehead wrote:
leaving at least 6dBFS for mastering stage is paramount. |
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This is a fairly complex subject when you start thinking about it in depth, but in general, with certain limited exceptions, I disagree. In the vast majority of contemporary mastering setups which will ever see a psytrance track, a producer can assume that a simple static gain change at the first point where it will be actually necessary (most likely at the input of a compressor) will be transparent. The one golden rule is "don't clip the master buss". My other personal rule is "mix down to a 32-bit audio file". I'm also of the opinion that many mastering studios who insist on specific peak levels for premasters are either using presets or want to emphasise the difference between unmastered and mastered, in accordance with the 'louder is better' psychoacoustic trompe d'oreille.
There are many good reasons to mix without activating any clip indicators but these days, actual S/N ratio is by no means at the top of the list.
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| think it's a good idea to have some values in mind you don't want to exceed for each group. you know, like: how loud should your leads, hats and so on, be? getting a loud mix is more about saving headroom, then pushing stuff into the red zone imo.
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I agree, methods like this help us to have sensible levels in our tunes from the beginning. More importantly though, a loud-sounding mixdown is as much about the arrangement of the track as it is the actual peak level of the final mix.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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splikz
Started Topics :
1
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287
Posted : Jan 3, 2014 02:00
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route everything to a pre-master channel/fader.
leave all the master fader, settings and plugins intact. |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Jan 3, 2014 12:48
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
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729
Posted : Jan 3, 2014 13:24
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 4, 2014 07:09
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i See what you guys mean. if the signal isn't clipped, you can always set the gain as you want for the input of any further mastering chain, right?
i think people talk about this limits because it's one way of saying clipping isn't really accepted at all, as a preventive measure for some clients who like to distort stuff to pieces. thanks
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Upavas
Upavas
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Posted : Jan 4, 2014 14:49
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On 2014-01-01 17:17, Colin OOOD wrote:
If you really want to you can mix with every channel's overload light solid red, and as long as you reduce the master fader so that it doesn't clip, your mix will be as pristine as if you were mixing more sensibly :-P
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I have never tried... hence I guess I didn't know...  I mean I do know that any channel other than the master may go red but I have never pushed that envelope...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
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Posted : Jan 4, 2014 17:07
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I always leave the master on 0 , I dont/Never believe of those storys and legends of -1 , -2 , -3 , -7 Or - 10 .
If you work right from beginning (On each sound and sound) it will never happen .
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jan 4, 2014 17:17
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On 2014-01-04 17:07, Cardinals Cartel wrote:
I always leave the master on 0 , I dont/Never believe of those storys and legends of -1 , -2 , -3 , -7 Or - 10 .
If you work right from beginning (On each sound and sound) it will never happen .
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yeah, I don't usually move it. guess it's more a matter of having a reference to begin with, for me. I know the kind of values I usually get, for I place the Kick volume always the same and base everything else around that. the same applies to the audio interface, I usually have three volume positions for everything, thought it made it easier to develop some references - and it seems to work. |
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