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If your master is clipping, will putting a gain plugin to reduce volume stop it clipping?
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Zohan
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
36
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 16:02:45
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Hi guys,
Just wondering if the master bus is clipping will putting a gain plugin fisrt in the chain ( and reducing the level) stop it clipping?
I see that it says its not cliiping as the level is reduced but is it cliiping internally at all?
thanks
  planet arium |
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 18:04
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Clipping means the volume is too loud. Lower the volume of the sound that is clipping, adjust the sound so it doesnt clip or put a compressor/limiter on it to stop it from clipping (last resort). If the sum of all the sounds are clipping, lower all the volumes.
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
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58
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1397
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 18:10
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It just might be still clipping if the peaks are loud enough, i've seen clipping with limiters on. It might not be clipping and you managed to bring down the peaks with a cost.
I suggest you need to learn to mix better using eq and panning first and volume faders.
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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Zohan
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
36
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 18:41
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Yeah i understand that the proper way to mix is to use gain staging where the amount going to the master doesnt clip ..
But, i am just trying to understand how the master bus works. The reason i ask is because if your master is clipping by say 3db, and then you insert a gain plugin to reduce the amount by 6db and then bounce the result will be a file that is -3db but clipped.
So is it the same when you apply a gain plugin on the master without bouncing the file? sorry if this is confusing
planet arium |
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 18:54
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it maybe depends on the daw. with logic, lowering the output fader by 3db solves the problem.
also the output doesn't "really" clip when you're listening inside logic unless you go beyond +6db. however when bouncing 0db of course is the limit. |
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Babaluma
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
18
Posts :
729
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 19:10
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what supergroover said. just don't clip, ever, absolutely no need for it when working in 24 bit. if you're anal like me, you'll also check every input and every output of a plugin chain with a meter plugin, to make sure there is no internal clipping anywhere.
as a good exercise, with the next track you make, try mixing with everything about 12dB lower than you normally would, and turn up the monitor gain at the end of the chain to compensate. i can say that in all likelihood your mixes will sound much better and more open this way. can't over-emphasize the importance of digital/analogue/hybrid gain staging enough.
http://hermetechmastering.com : http://www.discogs.com/artist/Gregg+Janman : http://soundcloud.com/babaluma |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 19:45
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Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 19:10, Babaluma wrote:
what supergroover said. just don't clip, ever, absolutely no need for it when working in 24 bit. if you're anal like me, you'll also check every input and every output of a plugin chain with a meter plugin, to make sure there is no internal clipping anywhere.
as a good exercise, with the next track you make, try mixing with everything about 12dB lower than you normally would, and turn up the monitor gain at the end of the chain to compensate. i can say that in all likelihood your mixes will sound much better and more open this way. can't over-emphasize the importance of digital/analogue/hybrid gain staging enough.
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+1 mixing with low values is the way! also checking that not a single plugin is clipping is paramount! good advice here! mixing with groups helps to set a proper gain structure between the elements as well, if you keep things where they should be, no more, no less, you'll get focused and pristine sounding tunes... |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 21:00
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Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 18:41, Zohan wrote:
But, i am just trying to understand how the master bus works. The reason i ask is because if your master is clipping by say 3db, and then you insert a gain plugin to reduce the amount by 6db and then bounce the result will be a file that is -3db but clipped.
So is it the same when you apply a gain plugin on the master without bouncing the file? sorry if this is confusing
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What do you mean by gain plugin ?
It does not have to clip. The limiter can just do its job and just reduce the gain of the signal. It can just reduce the peaks pretty good.
It still doesn't make the mix better. You pretty much screw yourself using this on master and treating peaks that way.
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 22:10
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Zohan
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
36
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 22:18
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Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:10, Upavas wrote:
You can reduce the volume of the master channel without any loss whatsoever in the mix stage!
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Thanks, this is what I was wondering about.
Cheers for the rest of responses 
planet arium |
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Ancient Alien
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
269
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 23:08
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what about limiters?
in my renderings, i let clip a little bit, 2db at max, then i use a limiter to reduce to 0 and then to gain +2...it get louds as the artists i listen and i dont get distortion
https://soundcloud.com/ancientaliengoa
Goa for life |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 23:18
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Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:18, Zohan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:10, Upavas wrote:
You can reduce the volume of the master channel without any loss whatsoever in the mix stage!
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Thanks, this is what I was wondering about.
Cheers for the rest of responses
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i do not agree on this actualy..if you just lower the master of a clipping input, you just lower an already distorted signal..not a good idea imo..
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Ancient Alien
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
269
Posted : Dec 30, 2013 23:40
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Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 23:18, Suloo wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:18, Zohan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:10, Upavas wrote:
You can reduce the volume of the master channel without any loss whatsoever in the mix stage!
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Thanks, this is what I was wondering about.
Cheers for the rest of responses
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i do not agree on this actualy..if you just lower the master of a clipping input, you just lower an already distorted signal..not a good idea imo..
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yep
https://soundcloud.com/ancientaliengoa
Goa for life |
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Padmapani
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
431
Posted : Dec 31, 2013 02:02
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Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 23:18, Suloo wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:18, Zohan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:10, Upavas wrote:
You can reduce the volume of the master channel without any loss whatsoever in the mix stage!
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Thanks, this is what I was wondering about.
Cheers for the rest of responses
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i do not agree on this actualy..if you just lower the master of a clipping input, you just lower an already distorted signal..not a good idea imo..
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no. if only the master would be clipping (all channels you feed into it are below 0db) and you reduce the gain of the master, you won't get any clipping. maybe it's handled differently by different daws, but i think this works for most of them. |
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Dec 31, 2013 05:40
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Quote:
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On 2013-12-31 02:02, Padmapani wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 23:18, Suloo wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:18, Zohan wrote:
Quote:
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On 2013-12-30 22:10, Upavas wrote:
You can reduce the volume of the master channel without any loss whatsoever in the mix stage!
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Thanks, this is what I was wondering about.
Cheers for the rest of responses
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i do not agree on this actualy..if you just lower the master of a clipping input, you just lower an already distorted signal..not a good idea imo..
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no. if only the master would be clipping (all channels you feed into it are below 0db) and you reduce the gain of the master, you won't get any clipping. maybe it's handled differently by different daws, but i think this works for most of them.
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^ this is true. but it's a bad habbit to mix to hot. why not just set the kick on some value like -12dBFS and use that as a reference for the other sounds? you know, how loud should you allow your leads to go? and stuff like that?! mix to groups then watch those meters and you'll instantly know when something's gone over board. maybe you need to compress those rebel peaks on some sound, make a mroe even waveform, so forth and so on...
we need to take care of those peaks during mixing. the problem isn't just clipping the signal, it's assuring that you keep your levels where they should be - this actually saves a lot of headroom/potential loudness. that's why EQ and Compressor are the two most important tools for mixing, and it's really as easy as that: clear some frequencies to avoid clashing and tame those peaks down so those volumes don't get past a certain point in a way that doesn't sound bad or artificial, all to do with the envelopes on compressors.
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