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If u bounce a Mono signal into a Stereo file is it Mono or stereo??
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 7, 2007 21:59
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don t know about the phase reason but in mono it means in the center too ,it s where its the most powerfull, the more you spread your sound the less power have your mix. |
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Glitch_CapeTown
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 7, 2007 22:41
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UnderTow
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 01:59
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So what happens when you bounce a mono file to 5.1 surround format? Is that sextuple mono? 
For me the term double mono is only to distinguish from interleaved stereo. It means that the signals are separate in a format sense (and not in a content sense). Whether the signals are identical or not is irrelevant AFAIK. This is done either for processing the channels separately or as a storage format.
I always use (interleaved) stereo tracks for kick and bass but as both sides have exactly the same signal, they are effectively mono and there will be no phase issues.
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 02:16
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 02:47
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@ Makus, Speakafreaka & Colin OOOD
A stereo track is a stereo track regardless of the content of the left and right channels. If both channels are identical its still a stereo file on a stereo track. There are multiple mono file options available in some DAWS. Protools for example works this was. Any stereo file imported is converted to a grouped multiple mono region. This can be used on a stereo track or either the left or right channels can be used on a mono track. This can offer more flexibility. Double mono is not as far as I am aware an industry term and I think it could mislead some readers.
As shamantrixx mentioned most DAWS will reduce output by 3dB when you bounce a mono track to stereo. This ensures the stereo bounced file plays back at the same RMS and peak values as the original mono file relative to dBfs. This prevents you from running out of headroom. So there is no increase in power! It may also me worth mentioning that an increase in 3dB RMS does not equate to twice as loud. A perceived doubling of loudness is approximately equal to a 6dB increase.
@ shamantrixx
The bass and kick in mono thing is not really an obsession of trance producers. If you think of rock/metal/indie etc they use a single mic on the kick and either a single mic on bass or DI input (most of the time). For so long now the bass and kick drum have been in mono and there are many reasons for this. Generally we don't perceive direction of sounds below 200Hz (omni-directional). This is one of the main reasons as most of the energy of a kick drum or bass will fall below this range. Keeping them in mono ensures no phase issues and that equal power will come from both speakers (presuming you have left the pan centered). Other issues to consider are mono compatibility for radio and club systems. Unless for a specific effect there is no need to have bass or kick in stereo, its just dam right uneconomical, plain and simple. Hence audio engineers and producers for decades have been doing it this way.
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Colin OOOD
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 02:53
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Quote:
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On 2007-11-08 02:47, Psytracked wrote:
@ Makus, Speakafreaka & Colin OOOD
A stereo track is a stereo track regardless of the content of the left and right channels. If both channels are identical its still a stereo file on a stereo track. |
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Agreed. As you say, a stereo audio file playing back on a stereo track will play back in stereo. However if the content of each channel of that stereo file is identical then that stereo file playing back on that stereo track contains a signal that is effectively in mono, containing as it does no stereo information, ie. the Side channel is empty.
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Psytracked
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 03:03
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Quote:
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On 2007-11-08 02:53, Colin OOOD wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-11-08 02:47, Psytracked wrote:
@ Makus, Speakafreaka & Colin OOOD
A stereo track is a stereo track regardless of the content of the left and right channels. If both channels are identical its still a stereo file on a stereo track. |
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Agreed. As you say, a stereo audio file playing back on a stereo track will play back in stereo. However if the content of each channel of that stereo file is identical then that stereo file playing back on that stereo track contains a signal that is effectively in mono, containing as it does no stereo information, ie. the Side channel is empty.
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In terms of output it could be considered mono however it is still a stereo file on a stereo track. Not very resourceful. If they are both the same then why not do away with one? That way we don't have people making up new unnecessary terminology like "double mono"!!
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Colin OOOD
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 03:10
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Yah but most people on here don't speak English as a first language... and anyway I was only giving my opinion about someone else's answer to the original question
Personally I check stereo content every step of the way and if the scope shows a straight line I bounce to mono. Playback might still be on a stereo track if I want to add a stereo insert but I'm forced by circumstance to be conservative in my CPU and data usage! I think this is good practise anyway, for any setup.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
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Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Psytracked
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 03:22
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Well if the British Empire didn't crumble then perhaps we wouldn't have to be concerned with language.
Giving an opinion on someone else's opinion sounds very dodgy to me.
I also use a phase scope for the same reasons.
I was also considering using the phase scope to make pretty patterns with FX sounds....I was just curious, I'm not a geek honestly.
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 03:24
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 03:44
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On 2007-11-08 03:22, Psytracked wrote:
Giving an opinion on someone else's opinion sounds very dodgy to me.
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I disagree. Oops, being dodgy again... 
Quote:
| I was also considering using the phase scope to make pretty patterns with FX sounds....I was just curious, I'm not a geek honestly.
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Lots of fun to be had in a Lissajous fashion I've got some well spiky patterns recently from stereoising mono hihats, and stereo bass is a good one for big round loopy shapes.
Did I say stereo bass? 
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Psytracked
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 04:04
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Did I say stereo bass?
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lol..if I was a moderator I would have banned you from the tread for that one
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Glitch_CapeTown
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 14:54
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makus
Overdream
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 18:14
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On 2007-11-08 02:47, Psytracked wrote:
@ Makus, Speakafreaka & Colin OOOD
A stereo track is a stereo track regardless of the content of the left and right channels. If both channels are identical its still a stereo file on a stereo track. There are multiple mono file options available in some DAWS. Protools for example works this was. Any stereo file imported is converted to a grouped multiple mono region. This can be used on a stereo track or either the left or right channels can be used on a mono track. This can offer more flexibility. Double mono is not as far as I am aware an industry term and I think it could mislead some readers.
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correct. but imagine the situation: i work in a production studio specializing in filmmaking and tv and radio advertising. inmy country only one (!) tv channel broadcasts in stereo and everywhere esle uses mono signal. all the audio i process is mono however i bounce the clips tostereo files. they are still mono in essense but we used to call them double mono. thats why i assumed such definition.
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Psytracked
Inactive User
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Posted : Nov 8, 2007 18:34
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correct. but imagine the situation: i work in a production studio specializing in filmmaking and tv and radio advertising. inmy country only one (!) tv channel broadcasts in stereo and everywhere esle they use mono signal. all the audio i process is mono however i bounce the clips tostereo files. they are still mono in essense but we used to call them double mono. thats why i assumed such definition.
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No worries mate. Thats quite a specific requirement you have there. My intentions were just to try and clear things up for those here involved in music production. I can remember at Uni submitting a 5.1 Protools session for evaluation, I got marked down because all the tracks where in stereo, bass kick the lot. It is just general practice to keep bass and kick in mono for all the previously mentioned reasons. There are exceptions of course and rules/guides can be fun to break.
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On the subject of scopes and analyzers I do worry that they can get in the way of ear/mind training, especially for the lesser experienced. We used to have a road crossing advert here in the UK, the green cross code, the slogan was Stop, Look and listen. I have a little post it under my screens it says "Stop, DONT look and listen".
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Colin - like it 