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I've heard my music on a pa system...
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
33
Posted : Sep 8, 2013 21:16:36
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Hello guys 
first of all thank you for everything, so much tips and tricks here, so much to read and to understand...(maybe someone wants to make an isratrance encyclopedia with the best tips and tricks ):D
i've heard my live set on a party system yesterday...i was really suprised in a good way, because i thought it wouldn't have that much pressure like the pro sounds have, that were played from a dj before i played my live set.
only had to turn the master gain on the mixer a little bit and it was ok...with pressure and bass...
but the mids were a bit weak...i didn't recognize them that much...and some of the highs were really really loud. adjust with the mixer eq didn't helped that much haha and it can't be that easy.
so yea my question is can i take this as an reference to make my sound now? just taking the highs down, on headphones it will sound shit but cause of the reference it should sound right on party systems? is that right or am i just fantasizing?
any help or advice is much aprecciate
thank you very much guys!
hope its not so bad to read.^^
  http://soundcloud.com/iamdelic/w-a-d-vap-gr |
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Sep 8, 2013 21:32
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Well it should sound good everywhere really. So you can take it as a hint that you still need to work on your sound.
Compare the track to professional tracks at your studio and you ll have an idea if it is on par or not. Than listen to it in other rooms and keep comparing and adjusting.. It is a never ending battle 
Good luck!
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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Agorit
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
114
Posted : Sep 8, 2013 21:51
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listening ur sound everywhere. if its sounds good in any system that u try, i think it will sounds good on PA system.
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
33
Posted : Sep 8, 2013 21:55
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Edit : @ agorit : thanks for your reply also, and yes i think so too that i have too check it on as many speakers i can. hope it will improve
supergroover thank you for your fast reply
yes was thinking that too, that there is a lot more stuff to learn to make it sound balanced.
oh and forgot to say. i dont got any studio yet 
just layin in my bed with laptop and headphones^^
so yea i only got my 60 euro logitech speakers to compare...and i only check the bass with them and then back on headphones. but maybe i can test it on some other speakers.
anyway will work on it and compare and compare..!
thanks again supergroover!
and if you say a never ending battle...good luck too
http://soundcloud.com/iamdelic/w-a-d-vap-gr |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Sep 8, 2013 22:01
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A question for you my friend: did you actually hear your sound from the PA, or were you listening to the on stage monitors? Were you in front of the PA?
Nevertheless, congrats! As it seems, it wasn't a complete failure: the first time I played a tune of mine years ago, I believe I made the speakers jump up and down for having no concern about the sub bass -and is was way too much.
First comment, if your tunes aren't mastered, than you will need to give them a little gain to make them equal to a mastered track -> but be aware of clipping! A good way to avoid this is with a limiter, but it will cut out your dynamics. As long as the track is good and has the needed power, it's fine! (I remember in 2005 I was in a festival with 50 kW of amplification, and everything sounded horrible until dino psaras came in and lowered the gain -> less was way more!)
So you raised the gain so you can have you bass frequencies at the "pro reference level" per se, but by doing that you'll need to adjust the mids and highs accordingly, because everything gets a boost with the gain, and as you noticed you frequency balance was off. Even with the best mastering, which will make the track sound the best in the majority of systems, if will never be the best for a particular system, because each environment is different (and depends on the sound engineer behind the stage), so eventually you'll always need to do some adjustments for a particular live PA.
However, you should always take mental notes when listening to your track in a different setting and system, and try to learn from it. Next time, try fixing what you realized was off with your tunes and play it in a different system, until everything comes together
Just don't forget a mastered tune will be louder than an un-mastered tune, so take that in account (if unmastered, you'll need to give it more gain)
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
33
Posted : Sep 8, 2013 22:43
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hey knocz thanks for your reply
in the beginning my friend who did the party managed me a little bit in the start of my set to get the "needed" volume.
and after everything was "right" and i heard some really loud noises and high tones i decided to go down and check it there. bass was ok. sometimes it was little bit too much and then i had to correct the lows little bit.
yes thank you it wasn't a complete failure but i thought something like that were gonna happen. my thoughts were...not enough bass...quiet claps and snares.
pretty much everything which forms the grid of the groove
so do you low cut your basslines to solve the sub problem or simply few notches in the low area to fit with the kick?
yes i know that mastered tracks are little bit louder. all tracks that i made i make with a limiter on the master channel in the beginning. when i take it off after i finshed the track it clips maybe +2-4 db...but only when snares or claps come in..and maybe when i change the note of my bassline and it gains some low engeries which overpower my mix then. after turning down to 0 db without limiter the mix sounds not so strong...then i turn one channel up and most of the time it clips again. but it gets better everytime right? right
yes was not thinking about that. but after the that i was there like " oh god no stupid idiot " just little bit to nervous i think. i only adjusted the incoming tracks volume...mistake..
yes i will definetly do that and hope to get another chance in the future to listen on a bigger system to get the sound that i want.
thanks for your long reply again knocz.
http://soundcloud.com/iamdelic/w-a-d-vap-gr |
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bandarlog
Bandarlog
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
809
Posted : Sep 8, 2013 23:35
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Tell me W.A.D., how did you play your music? Was it a wav playing? Because if you don't have monitors or a studio and just headphones, you might need more control over your sound than just the bass/mids/hi-eq-knobs. Why don't you split your song(s) in your DAW and bounce bass+kick, snares, leads, percussion, efx, ... seperately and be your own PA-technician at the venue. That way you can adjust specific sounds. Great exercise! And don't forget to save your project the way you PA-d it so you can listen at home how it sounded good on THAT PA. Go and listen to your songs the way you think they're ok on different systems, monitors etc. After a while, you'll have an idea on making it sound good anywhere.
http://www.soundcloud.com/bandarlog
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/bandarlog-memoirs-of-the-moment |
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
33
Posted : Sep 9, 2013 00:19
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Hey bandarlog, i played it with ableton 8 and wav. files. i just warped all my tracks on the right bpm. made one point every 8 bar and the preserve mode on "1/8" cause i saw a tutorial one time ago from a isratrance member but dont know remember the name which showed to switch the preserve mode cause on transients it will sound shit
thanks man this is a great tip, will do it next time and then there are some more possibilites with a midi controller. )
thanks everybody. you helped me so much guys.
http://soundcloud.com/iamdelic/w-a-d-vap-gr |
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Sep 9, 2013 07:37
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Quote:
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On 2013-09-08 22:43, W.A.D wrote:
all tracks that i made i make with a limiter on the master channel in the beginning. when i take it off after i finshed the track it clips maybe +2-4 db...b
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Don't and I repeat don't produce with a limiter on your master. It will change the way your perceive your sounds and it will not help you in any way. It just makes it harder to understand what you are hearing and leveling the sounds right.
When you finished the track only then do you start mastering!
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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Jeki
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
2
Posted : Sep 9, 2013 09:14
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didn't u use a reference track when u mastered it? |
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
80
Posted : Sep 9, 2013 10:09
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I can only give you some of the things i experienced. Maybe they're suggestive.
I would suggest, if you can, to buy some Studio Monitors with a soundcard. Even if they're not the best, having a linear output and getting into hearing linear output will help you a lot in getting the level of every frequenzy right. This is a process thats comes with time, at it might sound strange at the very beginning because, for example i felt like: what the hack is my bass? why are all highs so ducking clear.. it was kinda strange...
And the other thing is, cutting away the very low freqs. like <25hz is a good thing to give the PA... or lets say, to leave the effectivness of the PA.
Think about that, the very very low freqs, need to move the membrans a lot and quite slowly to make the oscillation for this freqs. on top of that, you have the mids that can be played by the same speakers and in this case the spearks will not have the efficency needed to have the right loundness for the mids.
This can also be made more efficent when using dynamic compression.
But this is a bit more mastering than production i guess... but its good to know
Have an ear for this guy, even if the clip is only ~13 minutes, he gives you a lot of information!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biH1ERPnMMU |
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W.A.D
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
33
Posted : Sep 9, 2013 11:19
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@ jeki
i rarely use a reference track...just not feel comfortable with it. maybe when i think the track sounds too strange, then i compare it with another track. and when i'm mastering i dont use it, cause i do no mastering. just limiter on the output to limit at 0db.
@ zwarag
yea i will buy one in future but dont got the money now. i think the best for me now is to stay at headphones ( because of my room, neighbours, family ). just bought the akg k 272 hd, but i am not very happy with it. i will bring it back and test the k 701. i hope they will do the job in the future.
yea but i am not cutting the lows but like in the video showed i use a lowshelf and maybe a little notch to bring down the lows a bit.
thanks for your reply zwarag and jeki
and thanks supergroover, from now on no limiters on the master when mixing.
http://soundcloud.com/iamdelic/w-a-d-vap-gr |
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xoC
Cubic Spline
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
179
Posted : Sep 9, 2013 11:21
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Limiting a bass ? and btw he's not even going to the threshold, so he's just doing gain.
Calling frequencies < 50 Hz unmusical ?
He's trying to show that he is doing subtle things, but the after processing is at least 6 dB louder. 
To stay on topic, judging lows on monitor booth speakers is really hard. Some frequencies will resonate a lot and be really loud, other will be quiet, but it will only be the case on stage.
The worst case is the stage with the PA subwoofers under it, it's like a giant drum !
The key is to have the subs tight and controlled, and that comes from the sound design.
The more you will EQ the low, especially with steep filters or high Q's, the more the low will ring (or pre-ring in case of linear phase filters). The frequency balance is important, but timing is always under estimated. http://www.storm-mastering.com |
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
80
Posted : Sep 9, 2013 15:38
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give these one a try!
i feel them quite good
beyerdynamic headphones:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/beyerdynamic_custom_one_pro.htm
@xoC: do you have some kind to read at this topic? i actually never had a thought about how high freqs. maniupulate the lows at the speaker point of view |
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