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I don't know !!!
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 15, 2010 21:14:52
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If i clip 0.1 should i use a limiter on master channel???
And if i want to get good rms level like -7 should i still send to mastering -2 db even if rms is -20 ,could -7 rms be reached without killing the quality???
and bout the first question should i sweat for not cliping at all and not using a limiter???  http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
1505
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 00:02
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rms -7 is way too much if I am not mistaken. Arent most tracks around -9 or -11?
If you clip you should see what clips and change it so it would clip anymore.
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 00:15
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sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
430
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 00:37
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I recommend to think about your gain structure.
On the master, digital clipping is nasty, avoid it.
limiter on master channel? nah, use a limiter on individual sounds. find transients that get your bus to clip and tame them. but keep dynamics in it, less is more. matter of taste. compressors are good for that aswell
leave lots of headroom, -3 to -6 db... 6 db is 50 % of the max volume.
-3 db headroom is a lot to work with. the mastering engineer will thank you. I think colin posted recommendationsfor his services.
look at your rms in a spectrum analyzer, you can get that value to -10 rms quite easily with a compressor and limiter in a finalizing stage.
eq-compress-limit, this is a basic finalizing chain for my own purpose. the compressor will use the ratio you set. 1.5:1 is quite moderate but will give your signal more meat
try to limit less than -3 db threshold.
by all means, experiment with stereo imaging tube compression and multiband compressors or whatever, but
if this end-result suits your taste
!take that finalizing chain away.!
you can give your own pre mastered version additionally so the engineer gets an impression how you like it. always deliver a version that has absolutely nothing on the master chain except maybe eq. 
you might want to aim for a final signal without the finalizing stage that is at around -3db. this will give the finalizing/mastering stage more to work with. you can theoretically control the outcome of the work a mastering engineer can offer with the headroom you deliver. I think -3 db is what most ask for. the rms on the master can vary from -20 to -10 rms, mine go down to -24 or lower quite often. It isn't so hard to fix a low volume mix as in contrary a mix that is too hot and loud is very hard to fix.
soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 06:51
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currently my rms level is -11 and peak 0.1 with nothing on master channel would it not be better to apply less compression ???
after using a maximizer the rms is -6 and sounds great
so i can't even put a compressor to kill the peaks?
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 10:09
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check some proffesional mastered tracks as well..usually they are about -15 rms hen i remember right..-6 rms sounds to me not very dynamicaly..
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 10:22
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-15 rms is not good quality
-10 rms is usual psytrance check shift, phatmatix and etc.
-6 rms is dnb
but hey i already did it
and it affects alot
even that the content is lame
if it is louder
the sound quality sounds somewhat better than most pro's
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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Suloo
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
87
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 10:47
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loudness hasn`t much to do with quality imo..i don`t want to start a whole discussion on loudness war but just a little
for me -10db rms is too much already it lacks of dynamics and sounds flat..that makes my ears tired pretty fast even if its a good track..alot of released stuff sounds like that..
i will try to find some good mastered pieces later..maybe sphongle or hallucinogen tracks but am not sure right now..
but just because its louder..and thats what rms means its not better for me..
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 11:22
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 11:29
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dj chichke
Chichke
Started Topics :
83
Posts :
705
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 14:01
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you shouldn't put limiter on the master channel unless you have lot's of experience with mixnig, compressors and limiters and you realy know what do with the limiter. i can understand that if you take your track to party you would export your track with limiter just for the party, because it can be frustrating to try to blance it with mastered tracks.
it's accepted to say that your mix should be at about -3db at the master channel before mastering. but many people don't give a shit on this and they have good sound quality.
i heard that infected mushroom's mixes are clipping and domestic, and many more..
some people say thet the 0db at the master channel at cubase is not realy 0, it's about -3, so if you are little bit clipping and not realy matters.
there is an argue about all this thing. some people will say you have to leave headroom and some people will say it's bullshit. honestly i don't have any idea about it. i think just very experienced mastering engeneers can tell you about it.
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 14:14
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 16:07
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You will lose alot of lowend for the price of loudness..
also speakers has a sweetspot, you cant play stuff too loud, the low freqs takes alot of power to drive
basically you can gain more loudness if you cut alot of lowend...
its all about balance
i can hear in ytour track that the balance is not well, that lead is way too high, might be of pitch due to Fletcher and munson theory, basically the higher the pitch, the higher in loudness we seem to perceive, as with low freq we need to gain them alot more to perceive them as equal loud.
i say work on the balance of the mix, the rest is fairly easy for a mastering engineer. But dont forget that mastering is a art of its own and can bring alot of nice character to your track.
Lots of mastering engineers
Working with tubes, soft clipping, compression, EQ, Both vintage analog/digital, and new tools.
It can really make your track come alive.
and most commercial tracks are over -10
some are even up to -5 at least rms peak..
i think -10 is good enough, maybe peak at -8 but i think most commercial acts wants to be around -6, -5
but thats just from very few analytics from my side...
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 20:55
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Quote:
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On 2010-06-16 16:07, Freeflow wrote:
i can hear in ytour track that the balance is not well
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really?
kick is near -4
snare is near -6
lead is near -10
hats is near -16
maybe i'll low the pitch of the lead so it won't annoy people
http://soundcloud.com/magimix-1/chilling-forest-whispers
Wierd shit happens :) |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
170
Posts :
3642
Posted : Jun 16, 2010 21:36
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well, ur kick and snare certainly are way too loud
most ppl set their kick at -10
snare can be loud (not louder than the kick), but that depends on how you want to use it and how it sounds relative to the kick (esp if you're using it on the 2 and 4)
http://soundcloud.com/ascensionsound
www.chilluminati.org - Midwest based psytrance group |
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