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I can make loops... but how the hell do you make a song????
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betaboob
Started Topics :
3
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0
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 18:42
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Anybody plz help!!!
I've used reason for about a month now... and i can make killer psy-loops with it... but can't figure out how the F*CK you make a song... sequence it or whatever.
Does anyone know where to get like a basic tutorial or something? Or know of some sort of buddhist meditation i should follow?
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Anak
Anakoluth
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
2395
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 18:56
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Quote:
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On 2003-12-04 18:42, betaboob wrote:
Anybody plz help!!!
I've used reason for about a month now... and i can make killer psy-loops with it... but can't figure out how the F*CK you make a song... sequence it or whatever.
Does anyone know where to get like a basic tutorial or something? Or know of some sort of buddhist meditation i should follow?
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lol, no meditation, only reading and learning 
so if u know how to make loops, it all pretty done for you. to make the song u now just need to arrange these loops together. but attention, if u work with all the same loops all the time it'll be a pretty boring song.
i dont like music built with "loops".
for any other thing....read reason's manual and search kazaa or for some music production basics .pdf files, they are hundreds of them, and useful sometimes.
cheers and good luck
 Anakoluth A Pebble in Your Eardrum's Shoe since 2001!
http://www.myspace.com/anakoluth
http://www.ektoplazm.com/profiles/anakoluth/
http://cronomi.com |
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solipt1c
Soliptic
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
349
Posted : Dec 4, 2003 22:15
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listening and learning more like
psy is kinda hard compared to some genres because the structure is very freeform. its relatively rare for any 2 tracks to have an identical structure.
nevertheless there are basic principles at work.
the most important factor is to think in terms of 'intensity level'. a good track cannot stay at one intensity level for the whole duration. it should have varying levels. some tracks may swing all the way between pure floating ambient and insane pumping madness. other tracks may be relatively similar in intensity throughout, only varying between 'pretty full-on' and 'very full-on', for example.
but regardless there should be some contrast.
the next step is to think about how you move between these different 'levels'. once again - in psy you have a LOT of freedom. you can either switch INSTANTLY from one to the other (really chilled breakdown suddenly kicks off), or you build really slowly or gradually... its up to you. consider also WHAT changes the intensity. is it by adding more drums? adding more melody?
yet again.... there are nearly infinite possibilities, in a way which is almost unique to this genre (thats why i make it  ). for example- you can actually achieve a 'step up' by taking things away, contradictory as that sounds.... if you have tons of insane swirly noisy brainfuck madness , and then that all stops, and a very simple, very sparse kick+bass comes in, then the pure relief of the painful noises disappearing and being replaced by something 'comprehensible' can make dancers go nuts.
however... i'm getting a bit advanced here. at first keep it simple. dance music works best when you structure in very simple terms. remember in this genre you can do nothing but add a single hi-hat, and it makes the whole tune explode onto another level (listen to etnoscope if u dont believe me).
either think of multiband dynamics - that is, witholding or delivering certain areas of the frequency spectrum. eg, have no bass for ages, then when you add bass, its a revolution.
or in terms of rhythm / no rhythm. complex rhythm / simple rhythm. kick / no kick.
or in terms of crazy noises / melody.
i could go on but hopefully this gives you a few ideas to work with
http://www.dartrecordings.co.uk/ |
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Anak
Anakoluth
Started Topics :
108
Posts :
2395
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 01:28
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soliptic wrote: "if you have tons of insane swirly noisy brainfuck madness , and then that all stops, and a very simple, very sparse kick+bass comes in, then the pure relief of the painful noises disappearing and being replaced by something 'comprehensible' can make dancers go nuts. "
 this is fucking good. and true of course
Anakoluth A Pebble in Your Eardrum's Shoe since 2001!
http://www.myspace.com/anakoluth
http://www.ektoplazm.com/profiles/anakoluth/
http://cronomi.com |
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ShAnkArAdelic
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
75
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 07:09
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Hey betaboob...
Me too fiddlin around wit Reason for some time now...
It`s an interestin machine....Used to be on FL before...
Same prob wit me maccha!!!...
jUzz can`t get tht song flow...
Wht i learnt later is...as in the reason for this...wht my frn told me is...
U gotto no where u want the trk to go....
Juzz makin sounds won`t do...
There has to be a reason behind every sound we make...why we make it n where we place it in the trk is rellly important...
If we start thnkin in tese terms...thn we get the flow..the flow is relly imp...how u want the whole thing to sound...as in startin wit a period of say 16 bars...
See wht all sounds u can add ...n when...n how u want the melody to come in ... or go out...
Where u place ur sounds...n how ur melody flows in the trk...ultimately makes the image of a "trip"...
so basically u got to no it...
Basic point.... got to build the 16 bars in our mind...n thn try to create it...
Hope i helped u....
PM me ...would love to no whts in ya store...
Peace
Take it esy
If it wasn`t for Shankar...... |
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Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 11:59
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Can't get the structure right?
Listen to a favorite track of yours - do the same. Just to get the feel on making a flowing structure.
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 17:35
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Just be aware that a good pieces of music tells a little story.
YOU tell a little story.
So now it's easy, just put you loops behing eachother so that your song tells a story.
Just trust you feeling, listen what you have done and just do as a next thing, that what feels right.
With the changes just do anything you want. Everything is possible.
Don't copy from others, there is enough formulaic music around.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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solipt1c
Soliptic
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
349
Posted : Dec 5, 2003 22:27
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i agree with pretty much everything else posted here too
between mike and subconscious i kinda agree with both of them, but i'd err on the side of mike. i dont see a problem with copying a structure of another song- it still has your sounds and your melodies so it neednt be too formulaic. 3 songs could have exactly the same structural shape and features, but one a 125bpm atmos style tune, the second a 140bpm gms clone, the other a 150bpm halluicogen effort. besides, as mike said, this is only for learning, it will give you a feel for how to do it yourself in future.
even if you dont *explicity* copy I really cant emphasise enough listening to a lot of the music so that you absorb it , and subconsciously take cues on what works well.
listen to it carefully at home by all means, that can be helpful, but also be sure to listen to it how it was designed to be heard - on a PA, at a party, on mushrooms (hehe)
what shAnk said :
"There has to be a reason behind every sound we make...why we make it n where we place it in the trk is rellly important... "
only really made sense to me after i went to a party and took mushies and heard it REALLY loud. at home i tend to judge my favourite psy by the musical content of the basslines or the sound-design of the noises, or whatever.
at a club i understood that the heavy bass is there to own your BODY (not your brain- your chest). the kick is there to make it impossible to stop dancing. the creepy, slow, evolving, strange-not-melodies-in-the-normal-sense noises are there because a mind opened with psychadelics likes to latch onto something new and interesting and then follow it wherever it goes...
etc, etc. so in this situation you really learn the *reason* for adding each particular kind of noise, and like shAnk says, adding it in a particular place.
http://www.dartrecordings.co.uk/ |
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limbic
Limbic
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
282
Posted : Dec 6, 2003 04:29
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try the way i started with....try ti build your track just like an artist u like track's i mean u like astrix - oranda then write yout track's rolls just like his at first kick bass hihats after adds melody then again kick bass and so uafter few times youll be able to build your own! |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Dec 7, 2003 15:28
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i was also trying to remake astrix - disco valley ...
but got brain fucked bigtime ..
i could remake all the patterns , melodies and all but couldnt get the same sounds [ timbres ] ..
do u ppl when remaking for practice also focus on getting the sme sounds tht r there in the original track ?
or do u just focus on the style , sequencing , flow and try to learn frm that ??
i have tried hard to imitate the bassline sound astrix has used in his disco vally track , but havent got very good resutls 
i dont even know if he has used hardware and if any vsti can recreate tht sound ...
if u ppl can hlp it would be really nice ...
bye 4 now and take care |
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solipt1c
Soliptic
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
349
Posted : Dec 7, 2003 15:56
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> do u ppl when remaking for practice also focus on getting the sme sounds tht r there in the original track ?
> or do u just focus on the style , sequencing , flow and try to learn frm that ??
well, both, but not at once.
if you want to model structure then i'd lift the structure but dont worry about the sounds... otherwise you -are- in 'ripoff' territory ... on the other hand, its also great practice to try and clone sounds, especially those all important basslines... usually i would want to be 'copying' at least 2 different tracks though otherwise its just gonna be too similar
up to you i guess
http://www.dartrecordings.co.uk/ |
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limbic
Limbic
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
282
Posted : Dec 8, 2003 00:14
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i didnt meant u immitate tracks ideas i wanted u to build the same bars ho wrote i mean he opened with 8 bars of kick and bas with to pads on it then try to write 8 bars of your vassline with your two sounds on it |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
136
Posts :
1214
Posted : Dec 8, 2003 09:40
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i get u limbic 4 sure
but my frnd .. a single idea in my opinion can hve many different approaches ..
so its just v have to see what works out best for us
pls feel free to wirte anything you wanna say ...
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subconsciousmind
SCM
Started Topics :
37
Posts :
1033
Posted : Dec 9, 2003 14:11
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I totally agree, that two tracks may have the same structure, but still be original.
But I would never recommend to copy, because the chance that one never comes out from the coping into his own originality is high.
As we can see in a lot of hardly distingushable psytrance most never come out of copying.
Much more important than analysing other songs is to see that EVERYTHIN IS RIGHT if it FEELS RIGHT.
So forget any rules of building a song, just do it YOUR way.
That was my point.
Most of my music for you to download at:
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch |
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Top-down
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
119
Posted : Dec 18, 2003 01:38
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"Copy" sounds bad, similarity would be better, some sort of artistic "Yes !" or "Got it !", this I think is the most important element for music style or even jenre to be born, so if you are able to copy, but still to come with a fresh/different/induvidual tune -you are there ! |
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