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How would you stop the violence at trance gatherings?
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 17, 2011 21:55
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On 2011-06-16 15:16, moki wrote:
my question is what did the alchemists, the philosophers, the wise people say about violence. a spirituality forum must have an advice about it, there must be at least one person who cares and believes that i dont imagine those things and they are really happening? no?
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Don’t know about philosophers, pretty sure each one of them had a different opinion on the issue. What I do know is that Buddhist monks train in what Western folks name (incorrectly) martial arts. Does this answer at least part of your question? As for alchemists, I don’t know how it was done in Medieval Europe, but the original alchemists lived in the desert among warring tribes. They probably had to kick some butt on occasion too.
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what is the right thing to do????? to stay away. i asked so many times the same question in the trance section. i dont expect a social advice from someone without occult interests any more, i expect a hermetic law, an occult law, something that tells us the truth. but okey, another topic number 20825719 where i think a book or two or 50 would help me more. actuallly it was my intentiuon to ask for the right book or name again. but it ends on the same place always.
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I already wrote what I think is the right thing to do – echoed by a few posters after me too. Have you not seen it? No, I cannot derive my answer from any occult law, I prefer to use common sense instead.
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i am sorry to mention goabase, it is simply the place where i am usually informed about violence at the festivals. fight only when i have to? well i dont have to, if you see it that way. at all. actually i dont even need to write here. 
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So true.
Yet, if you have something to say - why not say it? That’s exactly what a forum is for. It does help if you actually read the answers, though. 
You still didn’t answer my question: is this something that happens at big festivals or it’s also the case at small private parties? The answer to your main question will depend on the answer to this one. |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 18, 2011 02:29
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why is it more advicable to go to the police , than to friendly ask those people involved in this to stop it??? like men to men? why is so difficult for the community to ask those who supress the rights of others to just rethink their view and stop this supression?
these jerks in the trance section, particularly, this beat agency, is telling me that i am pretending to be a victim and restricting the freedom of others by telling them what to do. how can any idea be restricting anyone, i dont get it, everyone has the FREEDOM to react on an idea however he wants, no idea or moral advice can restrict anyone!! restricting of freedom comes only with physical actions i.e. violence of any form and not by ideas! someone who cannot see his own freedom of mind to react free, is the biggest victim of all. nevertheless, i still advice anyone who might be reading here to think about this once more- about everything i told you in the last years about things regarding trance.
this aside, i dont understand why is ít not the responsibility of everyone to put an end to this and only of those who experienced the violence? and what if they go to the police?
it wont help. or at least i have the feeling i would ruin my life if i go to the police, + i will make all secrets i know about the underground available to the police , + violence cannot be proven anyway, at least not so late. + i would feel as a victim to do it and i am not.
whatever it is. i am sitting in the middle of a dark forest right now, and happy to have this gone in the past. i dont have to say anything more as a matter of fact. three years ago as i came to isra, i would have been very happy to find at least one person to care. i did not. and to your question , it happens on both.
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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12
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1659
Posted : Jun 18, 2011 19:02
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Years of running a TV channel gave you some pretty bad habits: you talk into the camera instead of holding a conversation. What's the point of asking a million questions if you don't read the answers? What's the point to pretend that you came here to discuss something if you ignore inquiries of your partners in this conversation? If you just need to vent your frustrations - make another special on your Web site and post the link here. There is no need to pretend you care about our opinions. |
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dreadieg
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
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478
Posted : Jun 20, 2011 02:34
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heh, if someone tried to rape a lady at my shows, i'd break their heads open and toss em out.
someone starts a fight, those involved can go the fuck outside or get get their noggins busted.
moral of the story is don't start shit at my events.
 Doof Local |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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38
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1931
Posted : Jun 20, 2011 13:57
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Maine Coon,
of course i am interested in your opinion. i am sorry to leave that impression. it must be the frustration that is responsible for that impression - frustration always makes a person try to blow away the damp. and too much steam can distort the clear sight.
i am not giving exact details because what i said is enough to have an impression about what is happening. and i am not saying it for the first time. also my frustration about goabase takes too much of my inner power, but more important - it shows me that there is nobody to care about the simplest human rights and the most important thing is to leave the alpha apes run the show.
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kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member
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100
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Posted : Jun 22, 2011 19:12
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Nowadays large festivals have a very dark side to them. For psytrance parties this is especially dangerous, as people tend to be very open and trusting in general.
I think the main elements of violence at festivals comes from the following.
Generally evil minded people who prey on victims at trance parties because they know they may be "easy" targets. (Drugs, trust, chaos and confusion at the fest...
Also the organized crime - at every large festival, the lucrative drug market attracts shady characters. I am not talking about the people with the mushrooms and weed in the back of the VW bus. I mean those 4 guys over there, in the black beamer with the trunk full of cocaine and ice. When they have had a bit too many drinks and a 20 hits of crystal, there is no saying what they could do.
With so many shady characters one has to be careful, unfortunate but true. Cramps ones ability to "let go", which is especially sad.
Anyhow to answer the question all I can say is (although its common sense).
Everone should be aware of these peoblems and party safe and sensibly. Have friends you can trust with you, be careful from whom you accept drink/food/whatever.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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38
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1931
Posted : Jun 24, 2011 14:48
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to be very honest, i think that the main violence in particular places of the earth comes from the fact that the "positive trippi people" are gone or they are too little part of the whole thing, so they cannot protect the good energy any more and bad destructive spiritual influences attack the gathering. this is exactly what the destructive forces wait for.
this does not happen anywhere on earth. there are place on earth, where if you tell them that you want to take precautions against violence or stealing, they would look at you like you were coming from the moon. they dont know that kind of thinking about the trance scene.
i said this many times till now, and i will say it as clear and short as i can. i believe that it is simply an immense irresponsibility about the scene in europe and particularly in germany to let this happen. i hope very much that things will come to a good end and the people who pushed away the psy freaks will get what they deserve and finally be made resposnsible for their censorship and discrimination. and yes, i would be extremely happy to see goabase closed for a while. a longer while. just a personal oppinion.it is the worst thing that happens to the scene. you cannot imagine how ridiculous things have gone. people who were there with the spirit of trance ten and fifteen years ago are treated like bullshit, banned, and people who are criminal are given the word to do and say whatever. this is totally irresponsible and really ugly. and nobody says a world. because everything will be censored anyway.
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kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 25, 2011 12:33
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These topics are always difficult to discuss and find the right words, but nevertheless I will try.
I feel there is a struggle of power that manifests on psytrance floors and the balance shifts continuosly. Visualize a large festival and imagine the amount of energy that is transformed by the crowd there. Mayn years ago, when the psytrance scene was more innocent and of pure spirit, this energy used to flow freely - there was a real sense of unity and that everone was stomping towards "meltdown", towards that big moment of booom when time stops. This used to be a collective experience - the dancefloor was a spaceship that had a planned direction and goal. The pilots of the spaceship where initiated and had the correct intuition to achieve these states in unity.
Today, most floors no longer are a spaceship with a common direction, but a battle ground for the huge amount of energy that is generated/transfomed here by the trancers.
What used to be an easy ride towards dissolving has been crippled, today this journey is sabotaged from many directions.
It seems that negative forces manifests themselves in many forms to redirect energy and to ridicule those who can see through this.
Just as in everyday life, the aware elite suck on the sheeple on the dancefloor. Therefore on a deeper level, for me the trance dance has become a bloody spiritual battleground which represents microscosmic resistence to what is going on in the bigger picture. Sabotage and counter sabotage, we are all agents, intelligence gathering and planting (logic) bombs in strategic mental locations.
But then again, its all a game. Beware clowns, soon the firewall will be down again. This time round you will really be blown out of the water....cause I´put on da iron shirt.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Jun 25, 2011 14:34
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for me the trance dance has become a bloody spiritual battleground which represents microscosmic resistence to what is going on in the bigger picture. Sabotage and counter sabotage, we are all agents, intelligence gathering and planting (logic) bombs in strategic mental locations.
But then again, its all a game. Beware clowns, soon the firewall will be down again. This time round you will really be blown out of the water....cause I´put on da iron shirt.
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wow, one of the most genious descriptions on the issue that i ever read:) especially the strategic mental locations
p.s. edit: but before i go out to the clowns, i need to reactivate a bomb in one of my own strategic mental locations. |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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12
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1659
Posted : Jul 2, 2011 12:39
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Well described, Kazuku. 
I can't help but add: isn't all this true of pretty much everything in life, not just The Scene?
Any social situation you pick, there are people who want to create stuff for everybody, those who want to create in order to trade/sell, those who want to take a cut (middlemen, banks etc), those who want to control and take their cut by force (Mafia, government - often fused together) and those who just want to destroy. All these people have something in their genetic makeup, physical and social upbringing, education (or lack thereof), life experiences and group affiliations that puts them into one category or another. And the dynamics of their interactions (I believe) is the same, whether we're talking about trance parties in German fair grounds, start-up bakeries in Brooklyn or OPEC board rooms.
I also believe that ultimately it is not as much about the flow of energies as it is about the cash flow. Which is why I think solutions may be better sought in common sense, rather than occult law. Just IMHO, of course |
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kazuku
IsraTrance Full Member
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100
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Posted : Jul 3, 2011 01:38
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^I agree, but imho in the end cash=energy and cash flow=energy flow, so the exoteric and esoteric remain strangely unsperable. In the end, if we are standing on top of a hill, and have a good view, everything is common sense. Most of us are somewhere on the slope though, struggling for a vantage point from which logic can have an eagles view.
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Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
938
Posted : Jul 4, 2011 13:02
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On 2011-06-25 12:33, kazuku wrote:
These topics are always difficult to discuss and find the right words, but nevertheless I will try.
I feel there is a struggle of power that manifests on psytrance floors and the balance shifts continuosly. Visualize a large festival and imagine the amount of energy that is transformed by the crowd there. Mayn years ago, when the psytrance scene was more innocent and of pure spirit, this energy used to flow freely - there was a real sense of unity and that everone was stomping towards "meltdown", towards that big moment of booom when time stops. This used to be a collective experience - the dancefloor was a spaceship that had a planned direction and goal. The pilots of the spaceship where initiated and had the correct intuition to achieve these states in unity.
Today, most floors no longer are a spaceship with a common direction, but a battle ground for the huge amount of energy that is generated/transfomed here by the trancers.
What used to be an easy ride towards dissolving has been crippled, today this journey is sabotaged from many directions.
It seems that negative forces manifests themselves in many forms to redirect energy and to ridicule those who can see through this.
Just as in everyday life, the aware elite suck on the sheeple on the dancefloor. Therefore on a deeper level, for me the trance dance has become a bloody spiritual battleground which represents microscosmic resistence to what is going on in the bigger picture. Sabotage and counter sabotage, we are all agents, intelligence gathering and planting (logic) bombs in strategic mental locations.
But then again, its all a game. Beware clowns, soon the firewall will be down again. This time round you will really be blown out of the water....cause I´put on da iron shirt.
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Great post, couldn't have put it better
Sérgio Xamanist
facebook.com/xamanist
soundcloud.com/xamanist |
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Upavas
Upavas
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150
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3315
Posted : Jul 5, 2011 00:16
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I have worked as security on several events, some of them had people in the 1000ds, and the best thing I can recommend to avoid violence is talking, talking and more talking, because as long as there is talk the person does not really attack, usually...
Basically ask the trouble maker what his problem is and what we can do against it, after 10 minutes you receive a call, someone telling you you have to be somewhere and another security person comes and the guy has to tell his whole story again, after 10 or so minutes the same thing again, another person, the same story, after 3 times the aggressor usually gives up, this has worked many many times in the past...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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108
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Posted : Jul 5, 2011 09:28
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On 2011-07-05 00:16, Upavas wrote:
I have worked as security on several events, some of them had people in the 1000ds, and the best thing I can recommend to avoid violence is talking, talking and more talking, because as long as there is talk the person does not really attack, usually...
Basically ask the trouble maker what his problem is and what we can do against it, after 10 minutes you receive a call, someone telling you you have to be somewhere and another security person comes and the guy has to tell his whole story again, after 10 or so minutes the same thing again, another person, the same story, after 3 times the aggressor usually gives up, this has worked many many times in the past...
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lol , waste the energy of the agressor very smart
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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mica
Inactive User
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Posted : Jul 6, 2011 16:39
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Violence is a close friend of mine, its a love and hate relationship.
Back in 1997-98, I was at a small gathering on a beach. In the morning it was raided by african gangsters that kill you for your shoes, My friend was mugged in the washroom , several people assaulted,. One of the gangsters had his shirt open revealing many huge scars on his chest that looked like he was whipped. He was dancing and kicking people on the dancefloor. What i did was grab a huge rock and a mace can from my car and started to tell everyone that if we get together and I mean everyone at the party! we could attack them and get them out , . I could not believe what I started, everyone was cheering each other and getting together , .Well we kicked the shit out of them till they had to run in to theirs cars and leave us alone.....Thats right a bunch of fun loving peacefull hippies on acid got together to fight,
What i see is the problem is that most people are weak or scared........... less talk more action
There is a time to pray and a time to fight
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