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How/Why did the distinction between "Night" and "Morning/Daytime" psy start?
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MsoB
Started Topics :
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Posts :
61
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 07:13:58
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not trying to start an subgenre vs. subgenre argument, just genuinely interested in what people think about this stuff...
Lately I've been having some trouble describing the style of my sets and original tunes to organizers/promoters, because different regions seem to have different "rules" regarding what is "Night" and what is "Morning". No one seems to be able to give a straightforward, musically (in the theory sense) coherent answer about what specifically these rules are based on. Is it about certain scales/chords/intervals? What sort of samples(if any) are used? Synthesis techniques or mixdown/mastering style?
I've always avoided subgenre classifications, because to me they always seem arbitrary and subjective, and in particular,the whole night vs morning thing is starting to get on my nerves.
Why is it that certain styles of psy are always given the "prime" timeslots (midnight-4am, at least where I come from) and others are always relegated to either early or very late slots? I've heard some organizers talk about the "flow", and in at least some cases this refers to tempo - the peak time should correspond to the highest tempo music. I guess this is to help create a "journey" for those in a meditative state... but should a party be totally focused on creating a guided meditation session? and if so, shouldn't it be called a guided meditation session, not a party?
Is modern full-on just a slight step away from Tiesto/PvD style mainstream trance, having lost all of it's "psychedelic" credibility, and become just rave music? Is Darkpsy just a refuge for insecure goth kids who are so afraid of being labeled candy-ravers that they make/spin music that is so ugly and negative that it ruins the vibe of a party? Is it entirely inappropriate to drop a wicked heavy dubstep tune right in the middle of a psytrance set? Is the "spiritual" aspect of psytrance a fundamental component that must always be included and acknowledged, or can a psytrance party just be a party? Are we (the psytrance community at large) too damn pretentious, and thus alienating people who would otherwise enjoy our music/parties? Is a psytrance DJ allowed to break away from the 4 on the floor beat for an entire track?
On a similar note, the "flow" idea seems to be forcing DJs more and more to stick within the confines of one very narrow subgenre of a subgenre, which personally I find distasteful. I've always thought that one of the essential skills of a great DJ is the ability to blend between many different styles and themes, so as to create an interesting and dynamic composition - and to be actively engaged with and respond to the crowd. (Granted, this requires a tasteful approach, not simply randomly slapping together different styles in an incoherent way...) When DJs are forced to stick within the confines of one narrow subgenre, based on their timeslot, imo, their creativity is being stifled... And, imo, there are aspects of certain styles that lose their impact after excessive, uninterrupted repetition.
just wondering what others think...
Also, just for shits and giggles, here is (in no particular order) a random sampling of tracks I might play/layer in a set (not all are psytrance) - how would folks classify me...? 
Bliss - Upside Down
GMS - Flesh of the Gods
Kindzadza - Superstrings
Biogenesis - Computer Voices
Rusko - 2 NAQ
Principles of Flight & Phonic Request - Strange Woods
Mood Deluxe - Something Like Remember
Sidhartha vs. Khopat - Beyond Measure of Control
Krumelur - A Furry Something
Son of the Electric Ghost - Lightnectar
Shiva Chandra - Schaukelstuhl
Hujaboy - Psychedelic Baby
Nero - The End of the World
Beatnik - Kazoodle Beach
Tool - Parabol
Scatterbrain - Mexican Jesus
Lamat and Antigravity - Accidental Overdose (Lamat rmx)
Cactus - Playing the Gungle
The Beatles - Come Together
Hallucinogen - Spiritual Antiseptic
...damn, that was a book of a post
  Psytrance DJ sets-->
http://earthmensound.com
(original tunes coming soon)
Original dubstep tunes -->
http://omegadubstep.com
http://myspace.com/psydubstep |
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psy-junky
IsraTrance Junior Member
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11
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2151
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 09:12
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Personally the best aspect for me is the spiritual meditative tribal ritualistic experience that a only a psy trance party can give me .
There is good electronic dance music being played in everywhere other electronic music parties, the main reason i and many others prefer a psy trance party to the other diverse electronic music forms is for a some kind of a deep spiritual experience with high bpm, mind music with thought provoking samples giving us that intense psychedelic experience.
Although at the right time a beatles tune thrown in a dj set may add to the experience but imo if you vary the bpm/hypnotic beat taking it lower etc. or varying it too much takes away from the flow/meditative state.
I think night music is good for the night cos you cannot see as much in the dark so the intense bpm, psychedelic samples really help you reach that tranced out state in your mind.In the morning we prefer a little more groovy music with some melodic samples and such thrown as you can see each other stomp riding on each others energies etc. It was probably this aspect that led to the whole concept of day/night music. If there is a more logical reason i would love to know. "Whoever said the best things in life are free... obviously grew their own bud" |
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day_tripper
IsraTrance Junior Member
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28
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1120
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 09:33
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To dance away your demons at night so that you can dance with the angels in the morning
"It's not the fall that kills you; it's the sudden stop at the end." - Douglas Adams |
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oMcyLOm
Started Topics :
9
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1417
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 10:02
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Quote:
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On 2009-06-10 09:33, day_tripper wrote:
To dance away your demons at night so that you can dance with the angels in the morning
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 well said man 
~~Co-Creator of A Ritual~~ |
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Forest dreams
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
107
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9697
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 10:16
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so that you can scare yourself with some mind twisting psycho dark lsd in the night.. and then jump around on some mdma smiling and loving everyone in the morning
Nothing is said that has not been said before. |
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kahn
IsraTrance Full Member
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99
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786
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 11:35
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You're right. There are a bunch of 'standards' for music flow at parties. But it might be healthy for us to let go of these notions and choose our own path.
Looks like you play harder full-on and early morning stuff going by Southern California party standards. But I could also see this stuff working well 12-2AM.
Then I've seen parties do stuff with one Full-On stage, and one "Night time psy" stage. And at most raves/clubs; the timeslots don't matter so much. It's usually just based on who is headlining.
I think you're making gross misjudgments of Paul Van Dyk. If you go read about him, you will notice that he is constantly talking about making "PSYCHEDELIC MUSIC." I don't think his newer stuff is all that psychedelic, but his older stuff sure is. He has even said that Trance is not as Psychedelic as it used to be, but that it's still the most psychedelic genre. He wouldn't even address this issue unless this was one of his focuses. Also, he was making trance in the early 1990's; around the time that Goa Trance started coming out. So you could say that the development of early trance (before the distinction even between "Trance" and "Goa Trance"), Paul Van Dyk played a critical roll. And if you listen to his old stuff, the acid sounds and psychedelic basslines are something that are quite apparent. Yes, his stuff got more clubby with time; but so has all electronic music.
And I still think that Full-On has developed on its own without mainstream (euro) trance influence for the most part. Sure they try to imitate the sounds at times. But one thing that remains true, is that the mainstream trance/house scene in most countries is completely separate from the Psytrance scene. A certain few psytrance artists get to perform in the mainstream club/rave international scene. If you ask a club DJ about "Psytrance" they will come up with Christopher Lawrence or John OO Fleming. Which, they actually do produce Psytrance now; but it's a different style than other Full-On for sure. They will occasionally drop an Astrix track; but for the most part the stuff that is considered "Mainstream" full-On in countries where Psytrance is big has remained elusive to the more mainstream (euro) trance and house scenes. As a result, the music styles remain distinctly isolated. Also, the countries where Full-On has a major hold (Japan, South America, Israel, etc.) end up producing music with ethnic flavor unique to those countries as well. And because of this, since for instance there isn't a lot of mainstream (euro style) house coming out of South America or Mexico; the Full-On that comes out of these countries ends up sounding unique from the music from elsewhere. Case to point, you can hear lots of latin, asian, and middle eastern melodies in Full-On psytrance. While Euro Trance has remained mostly away from these sounds.
But I think that there are gross misinterpretations of what Euro Trance really is. Some of it is REALLY good; and it's a shame that many people here will never give it a chance because it isn't "psychedelic" enough for them.
http://www.soundcloud.com/djKAHN |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 12:05
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Quote:
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On 2009-06-10 07:13:58, MsoB wrote:
not trying to start an subgenre vs. subgenre argument, just genuinely interested in what people think about this stuff...
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Speaking for my self, what people call night time music (darkpsy) is not night time music at all.
The best flow of parties for me was when people were playing some proper dark tunes at lower BPM, stuff like The Delta, Spirallianz, Midimilliz, X-Dream, stuff that people call tech trance, but is actualy psychedelic, and the party was progressing in tempo and how busy the music is as it was going into the early morning hours where the morning stuff would come in.
Now by morning stuff I don't mean all the israeli cheese-fest, but hard music with a hint of emotion (Tristan, old Kox Box, Logic Bomb, old Deedrah...etc), that did not involve cheesy melody after cheesy melody, to a breakdown of strings to reach for the lasers or any of that stuff that you heard at a Gatecrasher gig with Red Stripe drinkin' boys and young girls in pom poms.
I love night time music but I don't like 160BPM of glitched out noise, some people do and that's fair enough...but a lot of those people would prefer for the crazyness to carry on in the morning hours, not because all of a sudden the music has changed to something that is more fitting when the sun rises, but they just like what they like.
If you read some posts in this very forum, a lot of dark psy lovers, disagree between them for what is dark psy for the night and dark psy for the morning. Some poeple that make darkpsy don't like it when others call their music darkpsy. This specific subgenre is misunderstood to the point where its own followers don't know what the fuck is going on.
It falls thin on me since I don't like this particular kind of music, but its just an observation, that will make you think twice before asking on here, what people consider night time, what people call morning music and what disctincts these two different styles.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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kriz
Horrordelic Records
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
1247
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 13:45
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yeah for sure, night time for one guy could be morning for the next... If the party is going in the good old meditation recipe i think its nice to start slow and go faster and then go down (lighter) again... As you go from light into dark and into light again...
Ofcourse i love parties that just go harder and harder (read darkpsy festival), but i also love the builduing up and down.. very nice stuff... Going from from psy progg to fullon and then to darkpsy, then when sun is up again going into more oldschool melodic goa.... For me a nice trip hehe
3o~ kriz aka krize 3o~ ....Horrordelic Records.... http://www.horrordelic.com
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- Think for yourself -
http://www.goatrance.de/goabase/member/profile/lkkkaKhOQP |
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gutter
Inactive User
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54
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3018
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 13:50
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its a storytelling with sounds
the best dj is the best fabler, he watch the ppl, read them and play accordingly a story, and flow based on bpm's has nothing to do with that imho , its always ups and downs (or straight forward into chaos ) i believe you have a nice view and the more you develop your skills and your personal aspect on the "experience", the better storyteller you will become, its not about the bpm its about the colors / places / atmosphere and hole feeling of a track that should care about, this is the story imho, not silly bpm based mixing
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 14:30
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It is more than BPM obviously, the actualy music and how busy and vibe each tune has, but if you are going to be DJing, you should be beatmixing tunes and increase the tempo over a long period, selecting appropriate tracks for the set, making it all flow nice.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
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193
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3858
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 15:03
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I like fat Techno at night. 
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 15:07
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gutter
Inactive User
Started Topics :
54
Posts :
3018
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 15:50
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central/north european psychedelic trance(tech, forest) and english acid trance or dark tribal progressive or massive goa trance ..
its all in the game for me
btw we are talking about djs who can mix great, not live acts that present a certain work and stick to a certain flow
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 16:04
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yeah we are kinda getting off topic with the whole DJing/mixing thing.
Just wanted to point out that everyone has different opinion about what is night/day music.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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OSO ONDO
Started Topics :
0
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13
Posted : Jun 10, 2009 16:31
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Its a lifestyle, this whole psy-goa-darkpsy-music thing.It all just seem to reflect natural instincts,like holding certain ceremonies or rituals at specific moments of the day.Wherever they use music for rituals they got other beats and sounds for night and day as well i guess.
Peace
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