knocz
Moderator
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Posted : Jun 6, 2012 16:59
Quote:
On 2012-06-05 19:01:45, psyviz wrote:
(Question: 2) what are the thoughts you have before you right a track?
I can be thinking about so many different things.. It could be about the macadamia cookie that is right in front of me but I wan't to wait to eat it, could be about a cold I'm having, could be about showing off to my friends, a (physical or spiritual) event of life, abstract or logical thinking, anything or everything.. But one thing is for sure, I don't thing about the music!
It's like trying to speak another language you are not good at (for me, something like french!) I spend to much time trying to think what i want to say in a language I understand and then trying to translate what I just though about, word by word, in real time. It just doesn't work. Now, I do speak two different languages fluently (programming languages, unfortunately, don't count), and when communicating through them I actually think in that language. I think what I want to say, but not how I'm going to say it. Well, this may evolve my choosing my words to transpose my thoughts more efficiently, nut my main concern is the idea, not the means of communicating it.
Same thing should go for music. While composing / interpreting / arranging you should be thinking on what you want to say/play/sound like and not so much on any point of music. Of course you must "choose your sounds", and quickly associate what's in your brain to how to communicate it, but that shouldn't be the main scope of your sessions. Try to speak and make music fluently, and when you get there than you can just let it flow out!
Quote:
On 2012-06-05 19:01:45, psyviz wrote:
(Question: 3) Do i make 1 main lead and break it down into smaller evolving pieces and eventually add layers to the end
Yes! yes! Yes! If this is what you wan't to do, than yes! Elements should go somewhere, and do something.
Imagine a music composed of totally different loops that just switch between each other. Many points of music do this. And you can think of it as the "loops" or sounds communicating during a conversation. But if they only say one phrase, and than go away never to return, it's like speaking to a hundred people but each only says a word - there's not much of a conversation here (it's not impossible, and making something like this happening can bring a really good track, if the 100 people speak / conjugate together).
Analyzing a conversation, people change their tone of voice, the speed of speech, use their mouths as a formant filter, etc., to emphasize their idea: the best example is a question. Is he best example a question? THE BEST EXAMPLE IS A QUESTION!!! Different ideas can come from different ways of saying things (and it's really hard to emphasize a question when communicating in the language you aren't fluent in). Say, during your conversation with 100 people, if each says a sentence of even a paragraph, it becomes easier to keep attention, understand their meaning and become interested. Just ask each one what's the meaning for life (and hope people just don't say 42..)
Try the same with music. Make your lead speak an idea, and modulate it. Make it into something (even if you start creating the end lead and build up to it).
There are many techniques in order to manipulate music to say what you want, as in any other language (mean of communication). And there are more and less efficient ways of saying the same thing, and there are people who are much better at speaking than others. You should train on these techniques (not making music, but leaning to make music. For this, you must think about what you say, like the non fluent speaker. But from this you can gain the fluency to speak out loud and clear.
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz
faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
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Posted : Jun 6, 2012 17:29
I got good idea´s from all of you thanks so much Guys
--------------------------------------------
Ricciardo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 6, 2012 20:37
there is a diference between an artist who actualy understands a concept of art and creates stuff based on technique and imagination...
and people who pretends/wants to be an artist emulating and trying to learn how artists do stuff...
there isnt any problem in trying to learn things, thats pretty noble, but when people start asking how to be creative and how to be good in something it actualy transcends the technology and it goes to spirituality/mind fields, its kind of silly (honestly)
have you realised that maybe you are not able of telling an history in music because you have no talent to make it?? is it hard to understnad your limitations as human being??
its a fact that you may have every tip and technology nearby with internet, thats amazing, that helps talented people with few resources to have ways of making art...
but same time, the fact the tools are everywhere, doesnt mean everyone should be briliant using them, and some people have talent doing somethings, others have more atributes doing other things
simply psytrance is not your thing...
and this is not a topic where someone is asking things about tecnique, your asking something that completly is subjective and transcends the unique soul and personality of each human being
its a matter of your personality, your self, no one can teach you how to be creative, you can learn tecniques, but creativity is all about your soul and self expression
*sorry if my coment sound rude at any kind, its just like the way it is, be able of do it or live with it...
splikz
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1
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287
Posted : Jun 6, 2012 20:46
do not do too much "copy paste"..
introduce novelty along the track, avoiding repetition.
that's trance imo.
many house, dubstep tracks are pure copy paste..intro, build, drop, break and build, same drop, outro. no history.
COMET SHELL
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
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577
Posted : Jun 6, 2012 21:40
Quote:
On 2012-06-06 20:46, splikz wrote:
do not do too much "copy paste"..
introduce novelty along the track, avoiding repetition.
that's trance imo.
many house, dubstep tracks are pure copy paste..intro, build, drop, break and build, same drop, outro. no history.
thats a good tip
psyviz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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159
Posted : Jun 6, 2012 23:37
Definitly wont copy and paste as much anymore
aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 7, 2012 00:53
Even artists go to art school. Talents are developed not spontaneously generated.
Narrative in music, as in many other circumstances is just about characters, roles, scenarios, conflicts and their relationships.
There are basic principles in story telling, like this guy Vladimir Propp analyzed Russian folk stories in order to obtain the main ideas behind their success.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Propp
Not that you need exactly this to give your music some sense of storytelling... but my point is, yes this is something that can be learned and yes there are certain principles that can be helpful for us, wannabe artists.
Just treat each instrument as a character, make them struggle with others, create pleasant parts and contrast them with sonic conflict... use tempo, pitch and harmony to cause different emotions / ideas on the listener.
Remember the Intro - development - conflict - climax - resolve kinda structure... just like in movies, works all the time, of course it can be further tweaked to add unexpected plot changes.
Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
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134
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Posted : Jun 7, 2012 01:26
double post please delete
Nomad Moon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
134
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1516
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 01:28
Quote:
On 2012-06-06 20:37, Ricciardo wrote:
there is a diference between an artist who actualy understands a concept of art and creates stuff based on technique and imagination...
and people who pretends/wants to be an artist emulating and trying to learn how artists do stuff...
there isnt any problem in trying to learn things, thats pretty noble, but when people start asking how to be creative and how to be good in something it actualy transcends the technology and it goes to spirituality/mind fields, its kind of silly (honestly)
have you realised that maybe you are not able of telling an history in music because you have no talent to make it?? is it hard to understnad your limitations as human being??
its a fact that you may have every tip and technology nearby with internet, thats amazing, that helps talented people with few resources to have ways of making art...
but same time, the fact the tools are everywhere, doesnt mean everyone should be briliant using them, and some people have talent doing somethings, others have more atributes doing other things
simply psytrance is not your thing...
and this is not a topic where someone is asking things about tecnique, your asking something that completly is subjective and transcends the unique soul and personality of each human being
its a matter of your personality, your self, no one can teach you how to be creative, you can learn tecniques, but creativity is all about your soul and self expression
*sorry if my coment sound rude at any kind, its just like the way it is, be able of do it or live with it...
One could consider just the opposite, u may have things to say and can't speak just yet, so first learn to speak, and then say something
psyviz
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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159
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 17:55
(aciduss) big thanks i needed that little bit of inspiration
(Nomad Moon) i did the opposite cheers hehehe
My analyzed solution is, the Story must consist of parts and different variations and emotions thus giving me a feeling of participation in the song, use sounds as a voice to speak .. i will now focus on making sounds talk to one another and try get my main idea embraced by focusing on a THEME and characters
Ok guys I think i get the hang of it and i would like to thank evoryone for your time
Its still going to take some practice but i will try post something soon
D7uan
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 7, 2012 18:57
this is one of the things that people tell me about my tracks....nice story telling....so basically what I do is I make sure I know where Im going so I begin by making the climax of my track first....and then I think ok so how do I go from zero to here (last chorus) and It works just that my tracks seem to be missing elements and not building up right....they build down after the last chorus pretty good....but it just seems like only the last chorus sound like a finished track and the rest like it just needs more elements.......so what Ive been thinking lately is to make all the choruses with all the elements of the the last chorus so the the whole track kicks ass not just the climax....i dont mean make it sound the same change instruments channge notes a little but keeping it in context with where you want to get....i find it easier to get somewhere if you know where you are going.....I havent been able to try out the make everything like the last chorus theory becasue my computer is getting fixed and ive not been making music for like 2 weeks (going fucking crazy)but ill post up a track with that experiment.... this is my latest track so you can use as an example.....remember that I made the last chorus first then I just made everything to be able to get there....hopefully i made my self clear and hope this helps....
*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Jun 7, 2012 19:14
old Ludwig Van's 5th symphony was inspired by an event that moved him to his core.
he desperately wanted to see his mistress on this rare planned occasion. the event was tremendously important (horny) , but her carriage got stuck in the rain without him knowing and she did not arrive as planned.
apparently this event gave birth to the 5th symphony.
you can almost hear the desperation.
i was a theater listing to a full orchestra play it,,
some classics can be a bit gaudy and flamboyant but no one stirs the senses like Beethoven.
offtopic:
S.Afica have lost about 300 rhinoceros in 2012 and counting. asians pay what seems like good money to poor ppl to slaughter the animals for their horns. they believe it will cure aids or some dumb shit.
always rips my heart out to see the calves in the aftermath mourning their mothers death.
I wish Beethoven was here to express my sadness in a piece of music.
Alien Bug
IsraTrance Junior Member
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27
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682
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 22:56
many good things was written here what i can say more... maybe: don't think about anything than this what u want to tell. just your imagination-hands-computer/keyboard/knobs - leave any other thing away from you.
when you finish your story, then you can start to thinking tabout other things.
its like with lsd: you start your trip and you flow from start to the end - just you and your own magic world http://www.beatport.com/release/cross-the-atoms/1042450 http://soundcloud.com/alien-bug http://www.facebook.com/ali3nBug
makus
Overdream
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82
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3087
Posted : Jun 7, 2012 23:13
Very interesting read. Good points are expressed here. But I think telling a story with music is a skill that can be developed (same as hearing music, reverbs, compression, wrong eq, etc).
It is how good you are able to become depends on musical talent.
In 2006 when I started to work in post production I had to make music for TV commercials. Basically a client approves a music reference which u need to copy. Sometime very close, sometimes just get the same mood and tempo. It was soo difficult. Go copy Madonna or Katty Perry, you have one day. Or some rock band. Orchestra maybe? My first attempts were not good and some clients even refused to approve them. I was very nervous and angry. I thought i am good because by that time I had some release, lol. How naive. But time passed, and today same work is a pleasure for me: only 2-3 hours and pays well
Same with own music. Do u think I knew anything when made the first album as Overdream? No. It is only now I understand how the flow works and where I need a break or more hihats etc... How does it happen? I just hear it in my head. But I trained it.
www.overdreamstudio.com
cheers hehehe
