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how to shape and control a sound?
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Dv2
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
27
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 15:04:46
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Hey guys,
I know how to use a synthesizer and get the sound/timbre I want, but I still wonder how to shape the sound in a specific way. For example, there are tracks where a sound gradually rises, then warps around a little, changes some more and then drops in perfect timing to the song.
I also know about automation and modulation, but even if the sounds I produce may be interesting, they aren*t that "controlled".
Doing standard-stuff like automating the cutoff filter or lfo-parameters (for example) doesn*t give me the precise control over sounds that I hear in professional tracks.
Instead of getting a lively organic morphing sound I get the typical LFO "wahwahwah" or something.
Anybody have any idea how the pros do it?
Midi-controllers? Special plugins?
I*d be very happy if someone could point me in the right direction. Thx! |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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1397
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 15:20
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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1490
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 15:53
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There is no special plugin, synth or fx... they all work pretty much the same.
Pros do it by being pros... they know exactly what to do and when to do it, but yes, everything is just synthesis, fx, utomation and modulation.
Learn to listen carefully to those you admire... then mimic the sound.
You won't get away with a simple LFO speed / depth automation... you need much more, reverb automation,bouncing & offline fx, glitchy stuff, group filtering, sampling, phasing, flanging, etc...
Everything automated/coordinated to create momentum. Layer after layer of creative content...
Technical resources won't make anybody better... it is like playing a guitar, i can stroke it and play it like shit cause i am so inexperienced but call Jimmy Hendrix and make him use the same guitar 
Pro is pro. |
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Dv2
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
27
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 16:46
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Thanks for your answer, aciduss. I want to clarify however, that i am not looking for a magic plugin that does the work for me. I*m also not asking "how to be pro", I was just looking for some tips when it comes to warping the sound.
I try to "mimic" other artists sometimes, but this topic is something that I can*t get my head around yet. I listen to the sound and I can recreate the basic patch in a synth of my choice, but I only get the raw sound/timbre without the intricate modulation.
I am asking, because with all the modulation and automation that I have tried so far, I still can*t even imagine how some sounds are made. Sometimes, what is a complete mystery for a noob like me can be explained by a tip like "try automating a transient shaper" or something like that.
I guess it*s more experimenting then. |
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loki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
429
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 17:18
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actually, you mentioned one good thing... midi controllers definitely help with automating in real time. knob twisting like crazy can be a lot of fun... then bring everything back to it's original position.
post some sounds you're interested in, specific ones on a youtube video or whatever. some people here will be jerks and reply with "learn it yourself," but a lot of others here will have some fun taking a crack at deconstructing it and putting it into words that might help you.
 Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your living room. ~Kurt Vonnegut
www.soundcloud.com/mixyott |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
1490
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 17:24
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OK, i understand...
You can start by posting examples and asking the old "how do i make sound" questions, i managed to understand a lot that way...
In the mater of leads most "complex" modulation comes from mainly:
- LFO modulation
- Envelopes (multistage envelope-sequencers are fun too)
- FX
- Bouncing to audio then duplicating render and applying different effects to different parts / phrases of your audio.
Also the glitching stuff, try plugs db_glitch or effectrix for introduction to this mater but then learn the manual way of getting the glitch fx (render + scissors tool).
Some leads are also achieved by creating for example a clean typical trancelead saw layered with a crazy modulated squelchy sound, playing same notes or in a "question & answer" mode.
But yeah, post an example... anyways, be prepared to stay endless nights just doodling stuff on DAW... it is just after years of experimenting that you find out what to do. I understand your urge tho, I was like that many days... but there is so much you need to understand and practice before your brain / ears do know exactly what to do to get "that sound".
I'll be more than happy to help you if you have particular questions towards sounds and / or any technique... cheers. |
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daark
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
58
Posts :
1397
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 20:21
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Dv2
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
27
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 20:22
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kotton
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
105
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 23:12
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I know It was already said but you should bounce the synth sequence, cut it, double it, put effect on it then crossfade between different bits and cuts, do alot of microediting, really small changes can sometimes make major difference. And also this smart tweaks you hear on good album  are result of a hard work and not just some simple modulation techniques... And layering a lot of sounds, good reverbs. And for consistency I like to make a lot of different sounds from a same synth patch so the timbre of the sound is kinnda similar.
Sometimes I have some wild fx sounds that cannot fit in the story of the track. So I compress it so It gets a bit less dynamic, record a sequence, edit it by cutting and replacing the bits, put a delay on it, reverb... But the sound is still too wild with too many drastic changes so I choose another good sounding bit of that same sound, put it in a sampler and use it as some kind of a spine so the whole thing sound consistent, groovey but still changes alot. Its good for some heavy sounding parts so you dont get lost in the fx storm. |
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Dv2
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
27
Posted : Oct 11, 2010 23:52
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good tips kotton, thank you! I understand that getting really good sounds is a long process. I should also experiment more with layering, sometimes I tend to forget the possibility |
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Shiranui
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
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1219
Posted : Oct 12, 2010 00:01
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it's usually a bandpass filter, not highpass, but you can use either (or both together) |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
112
Posts :
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Posted : Oct 12, 2010 02:18
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Video #1 - Is a simple pitching synth with as has been said an hp / bp filter + some distortion... but there are a lot of stuff grooving the beat, check it on:
- The note's phrasing, it is not a simple loop it has long notes and short notes on a complex timing
- There are a lot of mini sweeps and stabs giving life and accentuating that lead in some way
- Lots of fx in some of the sounds
Second video:
It is a sweep kinda done with a FM synth and some modulation maybe automation on lfo or osc pitch settings.
I did a very sketchy attemp to recreate "the escence" of the sounds you are looking for.
I used Synth1 V1.07 2006.5 (which is not the latest, i hope it works tho) made in FL 9
All detail is in synth1 modulation... meaning env + lfo...
I created various tracks to show the layering potential... i made this in 30 minutes so don't expect a super production xD
Hope it helps:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mf1aarbbosvujb8/squelchy%20thingy.flp
Please ask anything regarding the synth1 presets i've created but do try to figure them out by yourself
bom bom |
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Pagan
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
98
Posted : Oct 12, 2010 08:10
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When it comes to experimenting with a sound, lately I've been linking as many random knobs(well not quite random, the usual suspects) to the knobs on my midi controller, then just playing around to see how they affect the sound.
If I hear something I really like I record the automation, save the idea for later.
But it really does save a ton of time, esp on ADSR envelopes, I find it much easier to program live than with a mouse.
www.soundcloud.com/za-pagan
Its beer appreciation month.
Send me beer...I'll appreciate it. |
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Dv2
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
27
Posted : Oct 12, 2010 15:42
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@ Pagan:
Yep, and with a controller you can twist more than one knob at a time ^^
@aciduss:
Dude, you have been so helpful, now I totally understand the importance and possibilities of layering. Also, I*ve spent so much time on synthesis lately, I forgot that even something seemingly trivial like note length contributes to the sound. I*ve known about layering for quite some time, but for some reason I only layered drums and stuff. This takes my thinking about production to another level. Thank you big time, man !!!
I will have a closer look at the patches you created, but I think I understand. The sounds are not difficult to understand, the cool thing is how you use these sounds together..
Thx everybody for your input, posting here was a good idea
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kotton
Started Topics :
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Posts :
105
Posted : Oct 12, 2010 21:32
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No problem. Im glad I can help.
Another very useful thing to achieve this "smart" sounding modulations is to double the synth track (I never use reset function on oscs, just to be sure there is no phase cancelation) and use the sam or slightly different midi sequence and then play with small variations in automation of these two sounds. When youre done, pan each one to its own side and youll get this morphing sound and with few trials it can get really nice.
Im lazy person so I would normally record 8 bars of the same synth (In case I need 4 bars for my sequence) and then split it in half, put each one on a separate audio track, one panned L and the other R.
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