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how to make this bassline
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Freeto
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
15
Posted : Sep 12, 2013 18:04:21
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hi there!
this is very special for me....
a very close friend of mine died, leaving behind 2 grat psy trance master pieces, but unfortunately, with very low quality.....
i saw big potential in him, and since his not here anymore to share its great psy with everyone, im doing a tribute, remixing his music, and then i will relase both his music and my remix....
but he got mad skills, and mine are rusty.... and i cant make this bassline.
in terms of modulation it doesnt seems hard to make it sound like that, but i will make it with a little more color.
i really can get it right in terms of construction....
could anyone help me?thanks!!!!
here is the link for the bass (private link)
https://soundcloud.com/lkinghh/bass/s-ajpBt
  http://www.myspace.com/freetopsy |
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knocz
Moderator
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1151
Posted : Sep 12, 2013 18:37
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Hi!
That sounds a lot like a friend of mine.. Fox RIP.
Anyway, I know he used vb-1 a lot and his yamaha synth, which was refurbished and altered by some synth shop, or something like that.
One particular thing he once told me to do while we were making some tunes, which appears in this track you're showing us, is he hated the KBBBKBBB style, for him it would always be a
K___K___
BBBBBBBB
without even side chaining them, so there's not much of a need for low end on your kick (as there will be a bass note playing there).
The kick is really short, as the bass is the main body of the beat. The kick mainly stands as a time marker (which actually flips it self out of time in interesting ways), and I'd bet it can be made with a vb-1 with just a tad of saturation and EQ/compression.
Hope this helped.
PLUR
Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz |
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Freeto
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
15
Posted : Sep 12, 2013 19:56
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its exactly him! since ive never seen anything from him published anywhere, i think he deserves to be known a lil more!
but the only 2 tracks i could obtain from him are with really low quality, and i dont know if there are some better versions with any of his friends....
so i was wondering how his track would sound if finished!
yes that helped alot, i really was missing that factor, so i couldnt make it sound alike!
http://www.myspace.com/freetopsy |
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
80
Posted : Sep 12, 2013 20:13
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i just wanted to add something to knocz suggesion,
you should then deffinitly do a dedicated subbass chanel/trace, otherwise you'll lose to much of the bass pessure when you change key.
At least i feel like this when doing a 4/4 baseline |
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Freeto
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
15
Posted : Sep 12, 2013 20:18
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Freeto
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
15
Posted : Sep 12, 2013 20:47
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
80
Posted : Sep 13, 2013 00:03
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ok, i'd like to explain this in the ableton way, but you can use this in every daw.
i would, build some kind of processing unit, with all the tools that are needed to do the "basic" soundprocessing on EVERYTHING!
So i use one of this processing units on every channel existing. And if you use something like a drumcomputer, you should of course put one of this units per sample.
So here is what you do:
Take some kind of wrapper first, in ableton it is the Audio Effect Rack.
In this Rack you put as first thing a spectrum analising tool (lets call it SAT).
After this you put a eight band EQ (8EQ)
After this again a SAT
then a compressor
and finish with a limiter.
Save this Rack with no customizations made maybe bypass some things if you like and you have a nice Rack to just pull into your channel to improove your sound.
That would be the basic plain thing i do on every sound i use.
On/In this rack you can of couse change the setup, add or delete units(EQ,COMP,LIMITER, whatever).
For example, if the kick is not well compressed. i put in an additional multiband compression unit and tweak that right, it can be that i use 2 eqs a and 4 compressors to get out what i actually want to hear.
Like most people, you want to want have the Kick quite present. For this, there is the the sidechain compressor.
But if you lern a bit about compression, you dont need sidechain, to "time" the moment a compressor starts to work or the other way, stops to work.
By lerning doing compression without sidechain, only with the time factor, you will get very good feeling and understanding for giving you Kick and Bass a well symbiosis together that can of course be very powerfull and tight at the same time.
I leard a lot from looking at the dubspot masteries series on youtube. And a good friend who took the time to explain me the compressor like a hundred time. But from my point of view, what you need to lern to understand first, to truly use a compressor are these things.
1.) Shoebox rule: this is the shoebox viewed from the side.
____________
|-----------------|
|.....................|
|.....................|
-------------------
think about the left part as the very bass sound and the right part is the very high sound.
If you put a Kick and a Bass that both (usally but not necessary) "live" in the same fequenzywith. The overlapping frequenzys will then will manipulate the sound of the other, and since all this works additionally, the final sound will not be - what we all pray to - very clean. The principe here, is to give every sone a place like every sound is a cd cover, that uses some frequenzys lets say the bassline, the next is the kick, then some mids leads, and so on...
If you put two output and give then both like the very same sound, like the same kick for example (overlapping frequenzys, then will add to each other to the result will be of exact 6 db more loundess. nothing more will happen. BUT if you have 2 slightly different sounds, the difference of the frequenzys increasing and lovering the volume over time. Not only the volume of the overlapping frequenzys will change, but also HOW the result sound will sound. (because the frequenzys change in a different way then in the example with the exact same sound)
So what you actually whant DO is, manipulating how the frequenzys that overlap from the kick and bass will fade in and fade out. It is indeed unavoidable to have this effect, because the kick and the bass live mostly quite together, they use some frequenzys, the other sounds use too.
A EQ is "permanent" (in some way its dynamic too, because dezibel is not a linear scale) process. And what you want to do here is to cut out each others frequenzys that are the "important" ones. The ones that define the sound.
It would be the bass vibration(bass) you want to transport, the "pluk" and the "tik". Pluk(mid) and tick(highs) are overtones of the bass, look for them (lern the overtone shit, this is very important). If you use the overtones you can transport and lift out the sound of the, - for example - kick without troubleing about overlapping to the other sounds to much. Because of the next point:
Decrease on the bassline the frequenzys you increased in on the kick. Then increase the bass (bassline) frequeznys and lower these on the kick. So now you have created a "natural" place for the carasteristic of the bass sounds you are using.
I use this EQ with this technik with the hole shoebox principe along. And also before doing the compression.
Of course you can do some more eq AFTER the compression.
(Hint, now, if back to the Shoebox principe. A CD Cover would represent exactly a frequenzywidth, but the smater way to understand these principe is, that you cut out the frequenzys of the sounds that are overlapping to give the othersound the place to play its "carasteristics" without beeing manipulated from the overlapping sound that has some sound there but no carasteristic.
And here is a good tip for compression and wanting to push out the pluk(mid, that part on a kick that hammers, you know what i mean..). So assume sound comes from a EQ that pushes these frequenzys of the caracteristic, you want to give the compressor a loooong attack. Depending on how much bpm you have, do aroung 120 and 300 ms (tweak and you hear the difference).
So i hope this helps you.
I also have to say that i do not know this stuff, its more everything i learned and read and philosophized written together.
And since a lot of things in music are felt subjective, there might be some crap in my writings! |
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Freeto
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
15
Posted : Sep 13, 2013 03:18
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thank you!
in fact i allready understand th theory, what i really need is some specifics, in this case:
if i have a kick bass and sub-bass, wich freq. should i enhance and supress in each one? counting with the fact that i will have them completely overlapped (bass and kick starting at the same time)
about the compressors, by not needing side chain, using time factor instead, does it mean for example, if the compressor from the kick has lets say 5 mseconds release, should i put the the attack from the bass compressor higher then 5 mseconds? its that it, or how do i do it?
http://www.myspace.com/freetopsy |
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zwarag
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
80
Posted : Sep 13, 2013 12:38
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Quote:
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On 2013-09-13 03:18, Freeto wrote:
if i have a kick bass and sub-bass, wich freq. should i enhance and supress in each one? counting with the fact that i will have them completely overlapped (bass and kick starting at the same time)
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it would not make sense to write you exactly what frequenzys to manipulate, since as i said: you want to turn up the frequenzys where the caracteristics of the sound are.
(take a EQ, make a sharp form and push it up as hell!!, then slowly start to walk throught the different frequenzys, you will hear, that some frequenzys sound very well, they are harmonic. there are the carasteristic ones.
IF they both are to tight together AND not very well EQed, you need sidechain or do this arrangement:
KBBB
the
K___K___
BBBBBBBB
cannot work with to tight frequenzys, except you do a very well EQing before.
Quote:
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On 2013-09-13 03:18, Freeto wrote:
about the compressors, by not needing side chain, using time factor instead, does it mean for example, if the compressor from the kick has lets say 5 mseconds release, should i put the the attack from the bass compressor higher then 5 mseconds? its that it, or how do i do it?
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(the release has the opposite effect of the attack, the release will increase the sound over time, when the ampliteude falls UNDER the threshold)
put a short attack (30ms) and a short release on the bassline
put a longer attack (200ms) and a very slightly longer release on the kick.
tweak this as you like, and you will have a very nice slow oscilating pumping in your bassline.
So by giving you bassline a short attack, the compressor will work nearly immediatly, decreasing its presence, but leaving the important transient(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_(oscillation)), this place will be used by the kick, that has his full power for like nearly a quater second, then it will be decreased.
by having a bit longer release, you will give it a bit of more presence, but not domination!
Edit: you might also use the spectrum analyser to figure out where your carasteristics are, but for the fine adjust, you will need your ears!!! |
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Xsze
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
657
Posted : Sep 13, 2013 15:03
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Insomnia is here, but I will give it a go: 
Based on what Knocz wrote and what you have:
Kick - HP filter on 80-120hz
Sub Bass - LP filter on 80-120hz
Mid/Hi Bass - HP filter from 120hz and up, where it feels right
So this is like borders, you want to have kick that is clicking, but don't have low end, sub bass is in charge with low end and kick isn't interfering with it and finally you just need to solve kick's click and mid/hi bass situation, carve on one, boost on other.
I hope this make any sense 
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frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
1352
Posted : Sep 13, 2013 17:04
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Quote:
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On 2013-09-13 15:03, Xsze wrote:
Insomnia is here, but I will give it a go:
Based on what Knocz wrote and what you have:
Kick - HP filter on 80-120hz
Sub Bass - LP filter on 80-120hz
Mid/Hi Bass - HP filter from 120hz and up, where it feels right
So this is like borders, you want to have kick that is clicking, but don't have low end, sub bass is in charge with low end and kick isn't interfering with it and finally you just need to solve kick's click and mid/hi bass situation, carve on one, boost on other.
I hope this make any sense
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You can go lower then 80Hz with the sub, but make sure the volume is increasing as you get higher in the spectrum until it peaks where the kick's click (that sharp transient people are talking about here) is. This slowly increasing volume as you go higher on the spectrum is easily done with a filter of course, no black magic needed.
I'd make sure that the Kick is lacking this sub frequencies.
What's been said about the clashing frequencies is right: you need to enhance the frequencies in both sounds that are relevant and take them away on the other sound.
It will probably sound better if the subs are related to the bass sound - even if tuned an octave apart or so. And don't forget the volume shape of this sub channel, very important as well!
Oh, and really nice thing you're doing! Good job!
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Freeto
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
15
Posted : Sep 17, 2013 17:15
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wow, thank you everyone! it was really useful!
it has been quite a challenge for me to reproduce this, and the more i study this track, the more i open my mind for new sonic possibilitys that i couldnt even imagine before!
and with everyones help im putting it in practice, and able to make it sound less akward in the daw!
once more, thank you!
http://www.myspace.com/freetopsy |
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