PoM
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Posted : Nov 30, 2011 23:26
Quote:
On 2011-11-30 10:33, orgytime wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-11-30 03:35, TimeTraveller wrote:
a lot of this producers , mastering engineerst and guys that are resposible for a commercial product are way more above the knowledge of an avarage psytrance guy.
this.
@PoM thanks for the synthesis insight, but i think thats not the key since i should have the stuff that it takes to get close. im quite sure its the mixing where i lack. especialy advanced send effect usage eq and phase shifting...
i feel like iŽd just need some sessions with a commercial pro and iŽd get a super boost in production.
and im quite sure, this knowledge would boost my PSY production also alot. lets face it... its a bad ass production, and its quite rar to hear such skills in psy... since the psysceene isnt only $$$ which is a good thing!
knowledge and experience never hurt so sure it would help...but psytrance production is very different that this style (at least non commercial psytrance), hard to compare the sound of psytrance to this, it would not be suited for psychedlic music to use all these kinds of leads,drums, production technics..thats maybe why you dont hear such skillz in psy ,it would first need a other name and nothing with psychedelic in it.
make me wonder how some super produced dark psy would sound? still dark and psy or commercial?
Trevon
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 00:02
I think that dark psy influences and sounds would blend well with this kind of dark dubstep..
psyleads & fx with dubstep kicks and subs. it would something new and different.
and dubstep is big right now.
orgytime
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 10:43
this Robert Babicz mastering guy is sick lol... the reverb is
awesome... it really produces the sound in a tunnel o.O
crazy, and he only uses adjusted equipment, so he know what hes doing, very nice. but denying multibandcompressors is the same like say no to de-esser or dynamic EQs. you cant close youre eyes on that, no matter how much compressors you use in a row.
@PoM
its funny you came up with itb and otb, because i just read some stuff about it... you really think thats the key? the have to be processings to get closer without otb equip.
youre right, it really sounds like coming from the daw... and thats the point for me, thats what i want to renovate.
just to list up the voice processing for example:
Inserts:
eq
melodyne
deesser
comp
multiband comp
envelope shaper
delay
SendFX:
eq
comp
distortion
chorus
reverb
i thought the distortion should give a warm feeling to it and the send fx should make the dirty sound, but its still so "clean"... errrr and its the same with the lead sound...
www.soundcloud.com/orgytime
orgytime
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 14:01
PoM
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 14:43
you make a great attempt man ,really nice already but yeah the production don t sound really pro ,i dont really like their mix too but it sound more "expensive".
it s your first try i think it s more lack of experience than otb/itb.
orgytime
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 14:48
lol PoM... you speak out of my head exactly.
so... i feel stuck at this level since a long time now.
sure i could adjust this track (track levels, voice sidechaining etc.)... but i guess it wouldnt change so much (however ill upload a more polished version later).
PoM
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 14:52
dunno man , me i buy gears for this lol cause it get me to point A to point B easier and some hardware gears dont have any real replacment
after years mixing i think it s about natural born talent,the room you are in and the monitors.. even great engeinners will have a hard time in bad rooms.
itb you can get great result as good or close to hardware ,it also depend a lot about personal taste,you have to select really carrefully your sources and process them well.
maybe you could try romplers like omnisphere and trilian and nexus (not sure it s the right name) it could make your work easier as the sample come from hardware,in that style you will probably use lot of simple sound, quality of the synth really matter cause you can't hide the shit in these simple patchs, it sound great if the synth sound great .
using romplers you get access to good raw waveform i think it would be a bonus for this music.
PoM
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 15:36
in usa they have big budget for the commercial stuff , they can spend more money into production but you can get great result even by just using plugins,maybe not comparable depend taste...but don't think if your sound suck it s cause of plugins vs hardware, it s a lot about experience even if the tools help.
here a video of JOACHIM GARRAUD who made some hits for guetta and other producers, he use simple set up as you can see.
PoM
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 15:58
remind me i disucussed online with a guy few days ago , he make commercial stuff like this and live from the money he get from it, he droped all his hardware since years, but don't use synth plugins, mostly kontakt, he probably programed his favorite synths patch and sampled them or use some good kontakts banks. so yeah getting good sample/romplers will make your work easier as the softsynth still fall short for some sounds, when you need really good sounding oscillator,filters,envelops,amp.. even if samples get you just the oscillator and the coloration of the suming in the synth,mixer,amp coloration + it might be recorded with a good chain with tube/transformer coloration to get a more tick sound, it can make your work easier for some type of sound and to get the depth softsynth are sometimes lacking.
often in commercial stuff they use some very simple sounds where hardware sampled can deliver superior result, for bassline ,some leads..
PoM
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 16:41
btw with itb/otb i m not talking just about summing but everyhting from some source to processing. lot of this is not matched in term of quality itb so the result can suffer from it.
i was working on some hiphop, they can get such a dirty sound but still clean and hifi ..it s stinck analog gears,tape saturation to get that dirty sound yet still hifi,driven gears pushed to saturation... itb you can get as good or close result if you use sample that have been processed, but if you make your own source and all the processing with plugins you will have a way harder time and it will sound no where close,probably fake and cheaper .
For these commercial style of music,good samples is a must imo cause there is some aspect of the sound that are really hard to nail itb, like getting a kind of lofi sound that still sound really hifi and great, dimension of the mix too,separation, front to back depth but not of the mix,front to back depth from a sound on his own,thickness.
PoM
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 17:12
btw give a try at reamping your softsynth ,it can really help,on the focal i dont know but you could try, or if you have some hifi speaker / guitar amp ,experiment.
the mics and the recording chain matter but maybe you will get intresting result with what you have
orgytime
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 17:20
intresting, because of the sampled waveforms i also bought omnisphere. i also bought trilian for real bass guitar sounds which is perfect.
the leadsound you hear is a sampled hardware wave... so it cant be that.
i decided to not go hardware because its to much money and hassle for me, im not willing to spend so much.
so im still not sure what it is, because those sampled waveform doesnt do the trick. listen to it, i cant make it bigger... and it still sounds thin. the spectrum is similar to the original... and this problem i have with all the sounds.
could you describe the reamping in detail?
you mean recording the lead with a microphone? i never heard of this method o.Owww.soundcloud.com/orgytime
PoM
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 17:32
yeah reamping experment recording synth with microphone.
i thought you were using softsynth cause it sound like some itb mix,maybe it s how you process the synth,eq, saturation..everyhting matter,from how you program the synths to the processing so it could be a bit of all this that make you re not satisfied.
if you want bigger sound when using thin source work on layering maybe.
about hardware if you want good result you need to spend a lot anyway.. just adding a rack or 2 is not enought, you need good converters too ,itb is fine imo later if you make money of your music or production buy some if you like the sound of some specific gears and what they can offer to you vs your itb tools
PoM
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 18:17
Quote:
On 2011-12-01 10:43, orgytime wrote:
this Robert Babicz mastering guy is sick lol... the reverb is
awesome... it really produces the sound in a tunnel o.O
crazy, and he only uses adjusted equipment, so he know what hes doing, very nice. but denying multibandcompressors is the same like say no to de-esser or dynamic EQs. you cant close youre eyes on that, no matter how much compressors you use in a row.
i remeber some of his tunes i heard in the past and to me they were not sounding that good .
orgytime
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Posted : Dec 1, 2011 18:22
yeah im not satisfied that every radio track sounds better then my work lol. yeah layering helps alot, the lead for example is a tripple layer... with deeper chords, higher chords and a send channel for the crisp highs (distortion etc).
just did a little try and recorded the dry lead (left/right). im not sure about it... sounds quite similar, but def different.
gotta check it out more... but i cant believe thats a trick... that should mean i could include reamping in my mastering chain lol, but on the other hand, some people still use this tape method at the mastering... strange lol
