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how to keep loudness steady while Djing?
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zooter
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 9, 2004 08:21
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Well, i tried the search & could not find anything relevant in the recent threads, so sorry if it has been asked before.
I read somewhere that one of the main things in Djing is to keep the output at the same level so as to create a smooth mix. Now, i don't want to argue whether it is correct or not, but rather want to know how to do it?
I mean, we listen to the monitor on the headphones and can only approximately guess the loudness. so how to go about this? Use the meter indicators on the console? or any other method?
thnx in advance
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eliran17
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 9, 2004 10:14
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as you know already not every track was masterd the same way like others so there is a difrencess in the EQ (Comprassion of course) and Vol.
you can try first try to adjust with the mixer eq both tracks and find the points ( low mid hi) that sounds right while playing , after you did it try play with the gain maybe. you can also try add more bass and high to the "lower" track so they will coplete each other...
<One learns people through the heart, not the eyes or the intellect> |
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zooter
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 9, 2004 11:24
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eliran:
i need to clarify a bit. How exactly would you judge the volume when 1 track is playing through speakers while the other is playing on your headphones? Obviously, unless you play the track in the speaker, it is going to be difficult to compare the volumes...am i missing something here? |
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djparanormal
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 9, 2004 14:41
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when u bring in the track which u have been monitoring, keep the low, mids and highs and gain slightly lower than the track thats playing on the speakers, accordingly adjust the mids and highs , lows and gains of the the tracks that are playin now on the speakers, till the second track is heard clearly , and slowly remove the 1st track..
guess u are answered//
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blueOrb
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 9, 2004 14:52
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mubali
Mubali
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Posted : Dec 9, 2004 20:11
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It would also help if the mixer you were using had volume indicators for each channel. Then you could generally gauge how loud it is...
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karmaceuticals
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Posted : Dec 9, 2004 20:39
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-09 11:24, zooter wrote:
eliran:
i need to clarify a bit. How exactly would you judge the volume when 1 track is playing through speakers while the other is playing on your headphones? Obviously, unless you play the track in the speaker, it is going to be difficult to compare the volumes...am i missing something here?
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you could wear the headphone on both ears and get the monitored and the played song at the same time on by using PFL. Maybe switch one on and off to better hear the differences.
at least that's what I do 
and as mubali said, dont forget the level meter (the blinky green/yellow/red things  .
Try to avoid playing in the red field, that means starting clipping wich really isnt a nice thing to hear at loud volumes (when is it then?... )
it doesn't matter if the red ones blink occasionally, but it's bad if they are on all the time.
greets
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Dharma Lab
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Posted : Dec 9, 2004 21:26
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There are compressors & loudness maximizers available to help out, but I only think it is apropriate if you are at home or in a studio recording. Honestly, I wouldn't even use it during the mix. That is what the mastering stage is all about, getting an entire disc to gel together better.
A few years experience have taught me this:
1) Most mixers have a channel meter, which will give you peak values. They aren't as good as RMS but they can give you an idea. Generally, keep your mixes in the green & yellow (although I've run into one or two mixers that really sound better when pushed hard)
2) EQ & Gain effect your levels but so does crossfader curves, and your mixing technique. A standard X curve is consistent, but some other curves (often used by turntablists) will actually bring your cue channel in full volume in less than a 1/4" ride on the cross fader. Take note of the mixer being used. Bring a flashlight everytime, and examine the entire mixer before or as you get started.
3) Keep that headphone volume relatively consistent! It took me a long time to appreciate this. Set it at a comfortable level. If the track you are cueing is too quiet, chances are you need to boost the gain. This way your using your headphones for a reference level as well. Use your ears first, then your eyes. (Another concept which has taken years to appreciate).
4) Booth environment: Your ears get more "full" the longer you are exposed to loud music, which means you'll keep turning it up because your ears are fatigued. If your in front of a wall of speakers, this is a problem. Some booths may be almost totally isolated Again eep your monitor volume consistent so you get a good reference. It pays to turn down your monitor & listen to the room every now & then. I struggle to remember to do it every 30 minutes or so.
Sorry if I was long winded. All the above being said, I've come to really appreciate dynamics in a set. Music isn't meant to all the same level, and so parts louder & parts softer are your tools for building ariance, excitement, build up, breakdown, and anticipation.
I've become comfortable enough mixing & selecting songs, that I now also consider the 'style' of mix that I wil want to do. If I'm trying to build things, the mixers are longer, smoother, and more subtle. If I'm in the middle of absolute madness I might be more dramatic & cut back & forth between songs, or make quicker transistions.
Hope this is relevant to what you wanted, and helps.
Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
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zooter
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 10, 2004 11:02
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10x guys...
some real good explanations & ideas....
great (long winded ) tips by Dharma Lab
Interviewer: "So Frank, you have long hair. Does that make you a woman?"
Frank Zappa: "You have a wooden leg. Does that make you a table?" |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Dec 10, 2004 19:32
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Crystal Cris
Crystal Cris
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Posted : Dec 11, 2004 04:22
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If the party has a big PA-system, there is very likely to be a sound engineer, who controls the master EQ and the overall sound volume etc.
If the sound engineer is awake during the DJ's set, he pushes the volume down if the DJ is playing too loud and vice versa.
This makes things easier for the DJ as rude changes in volume/EQ are corrected by the sound engineer..so it is possible that a DJ with bad technique can get away with it..
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" -Albert Einstein- |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Dec 11, 2004 15:15
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Quote:
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On 2004-12-11 04:22, Crystal Cris wrote:
If the party has a big PA-system, there is very likely to be a sound engineer, who controls the master EQ and the overall sound volume etc.
If the sound engineer is awake during the DJ's set, he pushes the volume down if the DJ is playing too loud and vice versa.
This makes things easier for the DJ as rude changes in volume/EQ are corrected by the sound engineer..so it is possible that a DJ with bad technique can get away with it..
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For about 20 minutes, until she pushes the levels so far into the red that the mixer is distorting and the rest of the set sounds like the speakers are broken.
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john_c
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 13, 2004 20:22
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What I do is this: Do NOT mix with the Crossfader. Use the volume faders exclusively. WHen you start your set, keep song 1's fader BELOW the max (so you will have room to work with. I put it at about 80-85% up, use the gain if its not loud enough). Now as you mix song 2 in, don't even look at how high the volume fader is exactly, because it will only make you biased. As you SLOWLY bring the track into the mix, use your ears. To the experienced DJ, it should click in your head when the second song is around the same volume. It just sounds like magic. The key is to really slowly bring it in and not let the visuals of the knobs distract you. Then once both are similar, you can play with the EQ knobs and then mix out the first track slowly. Sometimes song 2's fader will be higher or lower than song 1. As long as you let your ears be your guide you should be ok. Its not science but its precise enough on a club system. I hope this helps as it really works well for me. |
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mono mono
Onnomon
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Posted : Dec 14, 2004 02:23
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I use the meters. Even so-called peak meters (LED's) still give you an average energy (because they flicker so fast). Keep those greens and yellows lit with some occasional bobbing reds. Most mixer have more headroom though you could conceivably keep a couple of reds lit. Any massive peaks (full-on red) will be flattened by the PA's limiters (designed to prevent you from blowing their system out, like an audio fuse, except it resets itself).
Where this can fail is that say one tune has got the massive bass sound, while the second has very little. If you tweak the second to the same levels as the first you're going to inject shrills onto the rapidly-dispersing dancers, hiding for cover like cockroaches got in the kitchen when the lits are turned-on. The ear is somewhat more sensitive to mids and highs, but they require much less energy to project the same perceived volume to the listener. See: Fletcher-Munson Syndrome, and we're not talking about the german techno group. And, if the track has bass and their still running....just plain difference in taste.
red all the way!!!
-dean
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 14, 2004 14:29
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I use the gain knobs and the meters to get the input volumes in the same ballpark. Then i put both headphones on my head and a/b the tracks on my headphones while i make adjustments to the track i'm going to mix in. When the new track is eq-ed and 'gained' right (so it is similar to the one i'm mixing it with) i remember the positions of the eq knobs of the track i'm mixing in and i replace frequency ranges of the track that is playing with ones of the track i'm mixing in, using the memory of the positions of the eq knobs to make sure i don't put in too much bass, mid or high. most of the time i use the volume faders, not the crossfader. Because i used the gain knobs to adjust the input to the fader, i can place the volume fader in the same position as the track that was playing and have it at roughly the same volume.
Hope this helps,
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