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Posted : Mar 1, 2010 01:17:23
I wondered many times how looks the way of a fresh new artist to earn money for his first album?
I mean, when a new artist has some tracks, sending it to a record label and let`s say this record label is interested in releasing a full 9 track album of this artist?
Additional complication is that the artist lives and makes music in (for example) Germany and the label is from Israel - the artist is not registered as a working person with personal buisness in his country - the artist is just a young "hobby, bedroom" guy who wants to start a small career.
Can anyone describe what must be done and how it looks from the beginning to a cd release?
when the artist gets money? does he need to register himself with a businees? does he need to register with a "mechanical rights" organisation etc...
you know... describe the way "from zero to hero" ;P
Basilisk
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Posted : Mar 1, 2010 02:01
Time for a reality check? I think it is rather foolish for most new artists to follow the path you describe. Pretty much everyone wants to have a "small career" making music but the psytrance marketplace is extremely saturated already. Artists and labels are always competing for diminishing returns. This is no doubt compounded by the lack of innovation in the industry; most labels still operate with a business model ten years out of date despite today's vastly different market conditions.
Unless you are the next Simon Posford I suggest you abandon your preconceptions and completely reboot your thinking. Your CD will not sell if no one knows who you are. You might make a few hundred euros from the label (if they bother to pay you; corruption is endemic in this business) but you consign yourself to virtual obscurity by locking your music away behind a payment gateway. Sure, people pirate music, and that will end up being how most future fans find out about you if you release commercially, but it's far from the most efficient nor effective way to grow your audience. Every new artist needs to focus on building a fanbase first and foremost; following the traditional path of "signing" an album to a label and releasing a CD is just shooting yourself in the foot as far as I'm concerned. (Again, unless you're the next Simon Posford!)
I suggest you do some reading into the new music industry literature to develop a strategy that works. Here are some articles to get your started:
(This list is obviously biased toward my interest in developing free music as a viable alternative to the traditional commercial distribution system but even if you don't agree it's all food for thought.)
V3NOM
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Posted : Mar 1, 2010 06:15
Yup Basilisk is right, I know when I'm ready to put my tunes out it will mostly be for free or else for donations until I either I have the finances to release music commercially or until somebody wants to pay for my tunes.
As far as I can tell the only real money is from getting either live or DJ gigs and even then it seems like it is harder and harder to trust promoters now-a-days.
Will be interesting to see how it goes in the future.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy!
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
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Posted : Mar 1, 2010 16:44
I would to a degree disagree with Basilisk's viewpoint, as being the extreme example of "how it could work", but I am supportive and encouraging in "seeing if it does work."
One of the best "success" stories, in terms of giving it away free, arguably has been the "Grateful Dead method", which was to encourage "illicit" recordings, trading amongst fans of tapes, and such. Of course this was pre-net but it does provide a fascinating example of how it could work, though arguably they made their money from gigging (and even that was dubious at times) and being on the road quite often.
I find the most frustrating thing being in my position, where I need an external source of revenue to take the graphics upto the next level, mostly to justify the time and a little expense on computer hardware/software to create something "outstanding" and "very commercial".
But on the otherhand, doing it free, and giving it away, also works well. Sometime in the next 7 days, probably by this weekend, my videos on youtube will have been seen 1,000,000+ times in 18mths.
Which ain't bad for someone doing a "niche" market.
However the complete lack of work/gigs has been heart-wrenching, it seems "exposure and being good" aren't quite enough.
www.youtube.com/trancevisuals
2,000,000+ views and counting.
Outolintu
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Posted : Mar 1, 2010 19:11
Quote:
On 2010-03-01 01:17:23, ☼ DigiTrip ☼ wrote:
describe the way "from zero to hero" ;P
first you take "zero" and replace the "z" with the letter "h" and you get hero. it's that simple! then you change the genre "psy-trance" and replace it with "r&b" or "mtv pop", hire a manager, producer, designer, web site creator and www-spammer to make you famous. you need a wee bit starting capital but you'll get it all back manyfold cause now you're a hero!
my advice:
make music because you want or have to NOT because you want to make a living out of it.
that's like climbing up a tree ass first (finnish proverb). IF you're good and people want to hear your music and see you live you might end up with some cash too...
"no one ever sweats on a plug-in" -moby
☼ DigiTrip ☼
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Posted : Mar 1, 2010 20:11
sorry Guys, maybe I described it in too complicated way. I just wanted to know what are the procedures to sell your music when some label want it. When YOU KNOW ON 100% that some Israeli label want 9 tracks from a (as I said) German young artist.
I know selling music in this way is stupid and else important things... BUT the young artist is a fresh dummy and he wants a small sum of euros to buy just a little better equipment (he changed his mind, he doesnt want a career anymore )
PLZ just tell me what he need to do to get the money?
what are the most common ways in payment? do the artist need to act like a registered one-person company in his home country or can he just pay a tax once? do he need to register himself in a BIEM institution? what he gets first - the money or selled music? Will he ever have back his rights to the music he selled - if yes - when? how much probably he will get for this album?....
as You see Guys I want to know the practical way of selling that damn 9 tracks not the theory
Sorry for making such a confussion, I just want to know how this way looks to be sure that I`ll never be lost if such story will ever meet me ;P
TranceVisuals
TranceVisuals
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Posted : Mar 1, 2010 20:19
Normally, cash or direct bank transfer, upfront.
Set an amount you would be happy to get.
Most labels thesedays pay 6mths -1yr in arrears after the CD is out, and stiff you at every chance, not every label, but far too many. You will probably sell 200-300 copies, and get maybe a few hundred euros for the effort.
As for finding a label, most people make friends, and brown nose their way in, using a unique blend of nepotism, couch-casting and greasing the pole with their own money, time and effort.
www.youtube.com/trancevisuals
2,000,000+ views and counting.
Basilisk
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Posted : Mar 1, 2010 20:23
Quote:
"Musicians of the future need to face the fact that living a life in music is a privilege that they will have to earn through hard work, preparation, innovation and collaboration. Young artists need to be willing to take risks and push the edges of creative expression by embracing the reality that nothing about music is normal anymore."
ocelot
ocelot
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Posted : Mar 2, 2010 05:22
1) why in the name of bob are you asking people on this forum what to do? are you trying to invoke the wrath of the gods?
google kid a) research international trade law involving germany and israel if you are so anal retentive as to care whether you technically need to be a business or whatever to receive the 10 euros you are about to receive. you do know that joints are illegal in both countries right?
b) if you actually think a musical rights society is something you are required to sign up for you really have no business in music on your own. pay someone a lot of money to reassure your fears. or google.
c) mechanical rights are the rights you assign a label to make physical copies of your work so they can, um... sell it.
d) you do realize that you are asking partisan people about political questions don't you?
e) if you are being offered an advance on an album, shut up, sign the contract, send them the tracks, get the money, and THEN talk about it. you will make more music in life i guess...
i basically can't believe you made it this far, and now are asking people on a public forum what to do...
a cd release consists of
1) making the music
2) a party interested in releasing it (LABEL) who has
a)distribution connections
b)money to pay for:
3) mastering
4) cover art and text
5) promotion. there are over 400 labels alone on psyshop...
this ought to give you some idea if you can imagine how many releases per label, and how many people hoping to be heard.
then, if the label is not laundering their 'other' money they will be trying to break even and possibly make a tiny profit (not likely) and whether or not anyone hears your album depends now on this label and their efforts... or your help.
because heres the thing- the 10 euros you get from them for making an album, is not the money you want to make- you want to play your music on parties- then you get anywhere from 0 to infinity amount of money depending upon how many people are there, how much they paid, or really- what deal you made with the organizer, who may or may not be totally losing their shirt.
see, this is why even respected established artists give away their music as Basilisk indicated- its good promotion in a world where people are starting to be shy of clicking the 'buy' button on music... this world is awash in TONS of fresh new shitty music. there is also a wee bit of good songs there also (depending upon your taste of course but the percentage would tend to hold unless you are just like the median which doesnt really exist but in concept and pop)
but you started a subject "how to make money at psy" and of course you will be duly crucified in public as you deserve to be people will hunt you down and the label you are to release with and divert your plan before it comes to fruition. better hurry up and release that and consider yourself lucky. it will never happen again...
but i digress... someone must have substituted nasty pills for my usual happy ones... maybe it was the "i have money but i dont know what to do with it" tone that set me off...
run for the border kid. run fast.
check new OCELOT, PROG-A-LOT and more on
http://soundcloud.com/aaronpeacock http://www.facebook.com/pages/ocelot/52481987054
whawk57
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Posted : Mar 2, 2010 09:07
U can check out Tunecore dot com and do it all by yourself with all the rights, but you are going to have to promote it.
cheers
www.djwhitehawk.comDJ White Hawk
☼ DigiTrip ☼
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Posted : Mar 2, 2010 11:07
thank you very much Ocelot, it was very helpful and I`ll try next time to give a correct title to a subject ;P
kalumet
Kalumet
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Posted : Mar 2, 2010 11:38
Forget about money from releases, really.
Labels can't afford paying you, especially the big ones because they have
huge debts to be payed to their coke dealers.
If you have an album ready, go and find a free netlabel. Fastest work, no risk, good promotion. Go talk to Basilisk, if your music is good, he'll be happy to share it with the world. He is good at it. The only thing he's not good at, is graphic design (sorry Alex, i couldn't resist!).
Get gigs. You get money from gigs. Not much tho but some. Also it's much more fun than dealing with labels and waiting for your money. You can get gigs easily if you do a good promotion of your work.
Make a website like this:
http://www.kalumet.hu Easy to make, no bullshit, only information.
now to be ontopic:
most labels don't give a flying fuck about going legal so don't worry about registering yourself If you plan to release in other scenes, yes, go and register in your own country.
these artists' rights companies are in connection worldwide so they will know about your releases anywhere. if the releases are going in a proper way.
New album 'ONE INCH PUNCH' is out on Random Records
http://randomrecords.bandcamp.com/album/one-inch-punch
braininavat
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Posted : Mar 2, 2010 15:39
I think things though get quite myopic when you view the music business through the lens of electronic music....Its easy to blame piracy, too many artists, too many labels....
I would imagine the reality is though the main problem with selling electronic music is there just isn't the audience anymore for it.
Here is soundscan numbers for a few metal bands from 2008 that i could find..
Alter Bridge – Blackbird (Cume: 153,576)
Dragonforce – Inhuman Rampage (Cume: 214,216)
Atreyu – Lead Sails, Paper Anchor (Cume: 169,012)
3 metal bands most people have never heard(i know i haven't) of selling 150k+ albums is quite impressive IMO.
There are obviously alot more metal bands in the world than psytrance producers too, its not 1999 anymore though..there just isn't the audience for electronic music at this point. No amount of ideas or promotion is going to overcome the fact people aren't listening to this stuff much.
Ascension
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Posted : Mar 2, 2010 16:46
Outolintu
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Posted : Mar 2, 2010 17:15
kalumet, you just made my day with your funtastic reply!
i think there were many good points made by many repliers here about labels, free internet distribution and free promotion by yourself and your friends on the net. but if you still want to release "a real album on a real label because it's cool" after all the good advice then READ THE CONTRACT CAREFULLY, especially the parts about LICENSING DURATION, RIGHTS TO THE TRACKS and ADVANCE MONEY. i wouldn't sign anything without advance money because that's the only money you'll probably ever get for the album no matter what they tell you. DO NOT SEND YOUR TRACKS IN .WAV FORMAT TO THE LABEL BEFORE YOU'VE GOT PAID.
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