How the Scene Evolves...

On 2009-04-08 13:33, goaren wrote:

i think the discussion should revolve around the people and the music itself, after you investigate that area you can start talking about the effect of certain drugs on todays situation.

On 2009-04-08 12:47, subconsciousmind wrote:
I think the main problem is not the people, not even the drugs, but the fact that most humans, people do not know how sensitive beings we all are. A huge part of the people in the world have no idea how much they perceive their environment and how many of their emotions actually come from OUTSIDE. They are not aware that they are connected to everything and they have perceptions, feelings which they are not aware of, and when they are negative they think its something wrong with themselves. Their way out: Do something to not feel anymore, use a drug like cocaine, speed or alcohole or listen to music which leaves no room for emotions and perceptions. In my opionion this is the deeper reason for all this.

On 2009-04-08 13:49, subconsciousmind wrote:

As for the rest. I really think we agree on most, except that I find the "drugs for fun" mostly an excuse for not wanting to see deeper reasons. Surely the few time experiences of drugs can be for fun reasons only, but as soon as there is regularity there are deeper reasons and "fun" is just a pleasent excuse.

On 2009-04-08 13:49, subconsciousmind wrote:
When it comes to speed and cocaine I just saw the most terrible effects on them, the parties and the music.

When it comes to speed and cocaine I just saw the most terrible effects on them, the parties and the music.

Well, a psychedelic movement is not just fun, it's not just distraction and party. It's an ideology, it's a quest for mindexpansion and gaining consciousness, a journey away from adaption to being ourselves, it's a lifestyle, it involves spirituality and after all it is based on the hippy movement and its ideas.

On 2009-04-08 12:47, subconsciousmind wrote:

First of all each drug has a specific way of altering ourselves. It is a well known fact that people who use LSD tend to listen to specific music and people who use cocain listen to specific music (not style).

On 2009-04-08 12:47, subconsciousmind wrote:




Furthermore "bad people"... I have never met bad people in my life. Maybe they exist but I never saw them at parties. All I saw are people who are abusing themselves and under influence of a multitude of factors behaved in ways which actually made me feel very bad.

On 2009-04-08 17:16, TimeTraveller wrote:
I am now very clean that means I smoked each day for almost the last two decades..and not only that.Now Im clean I even drink coffee without coffein hehe but only for short time.And I really enjoy when I meet my psyproducer friend for our sessions.And when it comes to party I am and will be the very same.
I think this is a personal thing.And I think the very most shouldnt take drugs more than one time.
As well as I think each one should make a personal trip.Atleast one time.

On 2009-04-08 17:17, ~d2~ wrote:

Quote:

On 2009-04-08 12:47, subconsciousmind wrote: Furthermore "bad people"... I have never met bad people in my life. Maybe they exist but I never saw them at parties. All I saw are people who are abusing themselves and under influence of a multitude of factors behaved in ways which actually made me feel very bad.

Part of me feels happy for you as you have been very lucky. Another part of me has concern as you seem a little naive.

There are bad people in this world. And I have seen enough of them appear at psy-trance parties here in London. Of course Bad is a quite an ambiguous word. But I have seen many people abusing others, not themselves. Of course, again, this is subjective.

What is very interesting is that you feel bad. Whats that about? For me this is fascinating.

On 2009-04-08 18:18, ~d2~ wrote:
so Hitler was a good person?

What about parents that sexually abuse their own children, are they good people as well?

Murderers? rapists? Pedophiles?

I think they are bad people. If that means that YOU are going to label me as shallow, so be it.

On 2009-04-08 16:26, pleiadian wrote:

Quote:

Well, a psychedelic movement is not just fun, it's not just distraction and party. It's an ideology, it's a quest for mindexpansion and gaining consciousness, a journey away from adaption to being ourselves, it's a lifestyle, it involves spirituality and after all it is based on the hippy movement and its ideas.

I am very unconfortable with the word "ideology". In the name of ideology many crimes have been commited so far from states (nationalism), empires (imperialism) , the church (religion-spirituality) , from simple people (my freedom worths more / Greed) , from corporations (free market).

I dont think you can be made consious inside the scene from the scene itself, you need input from all the situations around you apart from the scene, especially work ,this is that creates everything else. . On the other side drugs as LSD and the change that they do to the chemical balance of the brain affect peoples personalities and break barriers so we can approach matters differently... there are no revelations coming from anything else from the use of LSD other than the self itself and its heightened capacity to see things broadly while intoxicated, that is what mind expansion is. Which makes it a great tool for self exploration and realisation always relatively to the external world..And it should be free to be used from everyone.

I find it naive for people to speak about spirituality and it is something that i have to accept because i love banging tunes and having a good time at parties usualy intoxicated ... I dont think the "scene" brings anything different to the world , apart from nice music we are not special , just because we listen this music and take drugs, there so many nice music around and so many others people who listen to it.... And it took me years to come to that conclusion with the interaction with various people..
It is just a lifestyle , it is bitter when it gets demystified but is a start because it is actually a step forward to start debunking other stuff. Lifestyle can be slavery as well.. a slavery that follows it's own patterns and ethics inside the "scene" and essentially in every scene...

I dont think it has actually changed anything and somehow the hippy movemend collapsed because it was rather superficial at the time and it was sold out as t-shirts and records etc... Now it is kind of re-instated because as life-style it sells now, and it also give an "air" of superficial freedom.
I remember talking with bar-owner in an old hippy destination ... She said that all of them who came from abroad were all nice and polite etc and they had money etc... Then the movement started to fade out and they all left and in their place the local hippies (from that country) started to come and they were stealing a lot and causing trouble to the people...The ones that left first was visiting that place after many years... they are now business people , Doctors , Lawyers... Have they escaped the system? i dont think so.. they were just assimilated to the status quo.

The quest of mindexpansion and gaining consiousness is complex business and a rather difficult historical process based on the existance of people and their relations with other people , capital, power , science and technology. Only this process can create something.. And it is based on the physical reality that we live... all the rest is new age mumbo jumbo to sell us ecological consiousnesses , and peace and unity which only applies for some , not for all..
I find it rather amusing to see people whearing "ohms" and other things with deities on... as i did when i was younger and more naive to be honest... I would like to see those people living in Hindu communities and abide by the written and unritten laws of a traditional religion...
Anyway , because i am getting tired what i want to say is:
The "scene" fells into the wider norms of society and it cannot be assesed apart from it and only in it's appearence.

On 2009-04-08 18:31, subconsciousmind wrote:

Quote:

On 2009-04-08 18:18, ~d2~ wrote: so Hitler was a good person? What about parents that sexually abuse their own children, are they good people as well? Murderers? rapists? Pedophiles? I think they are bad people. If that means that YOU are going to label me as shallow, so be it.

Don't take it personal with the shallow, but if I'm naiv then you are definitly shallow

First of all I never met hitler, but I met parents who abused their children sexually. My experience was that those parents weren't "bad" but totally screwed. One reason why parents do something like this that they never learned to express their love in any other way then sexually. They acutally experienced love only sexually or even not at all. This is just one reason.
I think that human beings who became like this are not bad, but have become like this for a reason, they actually would have needed help long ago. Mostly it's to late and in my opinion such people should be locked up and never left out, because most of them simply can't be cured anymore. But still for me they are not bad, they are weak, misled, poor. Do you understand?

Do you think hitler with 5 years was evil? Have you ever seen evil children? Do you think their soul actually changes when they get old and become murders or rapists?

On 2009-04-08 19:01, ~d2~ wrote:
we have gone from bad to evil!!!!

You didn't stipulate the context of bad or a clear definition of what YOU mean by bad.

I have already stated it is subjective, but you insist in bashing me with your own believes. You push people further away when you do that.

Do you think hitler with 5 years was bad? Have you ever seen bad children? Do you think their soul actually changes when they get old and become murders or rapists?