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how long should the kick be to fit nicely with the bass?
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Boo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 8, 2010 21:05:09
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if a note length is X milsec (calculated from bpm)
how long should the kick note be? for example 1.3*X or 1.5*x ect...)
to fit well with the bass? (darkpsy bass, 3 bass notes, on same tone or note,60 100 80 velocity)
thanks! |
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1080p
Started Topics :
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44
Posted : Mar 8, 2010 22:01
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the long your ears hear it sound nice. |
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 8, 2010 22:59
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Why the kick? Shorten bass notes, but fuk them up in the routing eg velocity - filter decay
Keynote - filter sustain
i say keep the kick as full as possable but just same "thickness" as the bass.
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Josh Inc
Started Topics :
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Posted : Mar 8, 2010 23:28
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again, how long is a piece of string??
try listening to it and let your ears decide.
there is no set formula/equation for music unless you want formulaic tunes that sound the same haha.
just tweak the kick and bass until they compliment each other, no need for a calculator- that won't tell you whether something sounds good or not will it?
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loki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 8, 2010 23:43
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hold up, while saying "trust your ears" is all and good, there is a bit of science to this.
at 145 bpm, a beat lasts roughly 103ms... this means that if you are using a kbbb line, a kick longer than 103ms will have a tail that is still playing during the first note of your bass. that's not to say your kick can't be longer - you could sidechain compress the bass to your kick or vice versa, use a higher octave starting note for your bassline, etc. and NOW the only thing that can help you is your ears!
but, this is a good starting point, and has definitely been discussed in these boards before. |
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jizy
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 9, 2010 00:54
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Well that goes with out saying anyways because if tune @145 the kick will have to be shortend with fast swoop
Load kick into a sampler, far more versitile using kontaks pitch envelopes. |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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187
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Posted : Mar 9, 2010 01:44
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If you start off by making sure the kick and the bass won't coincide even for a split millisecond, how will you make a decision on whether that sweet bass consonance that can only possibly occur when they both touch each other, was good or bad?
Damn...sometimes talking about kick and bass patches, sounds like making sweet love to a phat chick 
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
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Posted : Mar 9, 2010 03:07
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 9, 2010 03:42
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this is reverse engineering method, but instructive in my opinion:
Find a couple bars in a track that you like (where the kick/bass sit nicely) that's at the BPM you're working with, in the key that you're working with.
Now, apply a filter or EQ the track so that only the bass/kick are coming through. render this to a new file.
Most of the time in modern psy its the kbbb pattern or some variant, so look at the resulting couple of bars in 1/16 view. Here you can see what waveform they're using, but more importantly you see how the kick waveform flows into the bass waveform.
This method works in ableton, I'm not sure about other DAWs - Plug in your own Kbbb pattern, and record the waveform so that it sits directly under or over the waveform you're trying to imitate - what does your kick look like in relation to your bass as compared to your example track? if you're using a kick from a sample pack or something, it's most likely either too short or too long - adjust as you see fit, re-record! |
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E-KL!PSE
IsraTrance Junior Member
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14
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66
Posted : Mar 9, 2010 04:03
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It all depends on the type of kick, if the kick is a long deep one you would want a bass sound that has higher frequncies than the kick, if the kick is more punchy with more midrange you should have a bass with more on the lower frequcies, that way they won't be fighting the spectrum. If it sounds weak, don't worry there needs to be room to beath (unless you're justice lol) for all those other elements like perussion, lead, ambience, Sfx, ect., especially if you are like layering like me. Length of both elements are depending on the feel of the beat. Best to use a spectrum analisys tool for this, a great free one is vozengo - span. Eq is your friend, treat him nice, don't abuse him though. 
E-KLIPSE Trance Productions
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*eLliSDee*
IsraTrance Junior Member
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671
Posted : Mar 9, 2010 04:33
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this kbbb formula is only one way to avoid frequency collisions. with this you can make the kick 1/4 of bar -if your timing is it's divided into 1 bar per beat. easy to calculate. the other 3/4 of the bar is for the 3 basses.
better to sidechain or EQ a notch for kick in your bass and put that bass where ever you like.
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loki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
49
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429
Posted : Mar 9, 2010 04:57
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willsanquil has great advice about finding an example track. this applies to so much regarding kicks and basslines anyways. you can open up the waveform and see things such as where the kick ends, what the kick amp envelope looks like, how the bass amp-envelope is shaped, does the kick flow right into the bass etc etc etc.
i think it's often best to try and make the sound you want first using your ears, then open up a track you like with similar sounds to see what subtle things you could tweak (i.e. envelopes or whatever). i do this all the time. |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
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875
Posted : Mar 9, 2010 15:48
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If you're using a pc, this is a very useful tool for studying this very thing.
You can actually clearly see whether the kick blends perfectly into the first note or sweeps under the bassline in the subs or just has a very large dominant reach across all the subs.
It's my favourite analyzing vst |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 9, 2010 19:18
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Mar 9, 2010 19:30
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Quote:
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On 2010-03-08 21:05:09, Boo wrote:
if a note length is X milsec (calculated from bpm)
how long should the kick note be? for example 1.3*X or 1.5*x ect...)
to fit well with the bass? (darkpsy bass, 3 bass notes, on same tone or note,60 100 80 velocity)
thanks!
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the kick should be as loong as it boom nicely , a good kick at 145 bpm could sux at 142,there is a time relation bewteen the tail (maybe not only the tail) of the kick and bpm ,get that first sounding good it ll give you the lenght of the kick, no point of using a short or long kick if it don t pump nicely on his own, it s the base of the groove |
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