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how long does it takes u to make a song?
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damage
damage
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
321
Posted : Sep 26, 2005 23:33
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On 2005-09-26 20:35, sex stile wrote:
ummm...lets see one day a good friend of mine told me that good tracks take long time.....and bad tracks take little time....i agree with that but i think it depends on what skills you have and what ekipament...the time it is only a cause of that...eheh:)
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are you sure he/she didn`t tell you it`s the other way around? 
i know of a few artists that agree (including myself) that a good track will usually take less time and the longer you work on it, the less hope there is of it being a dancefloor killer...reason being that when you do the good track, there is a very strong energy flow and everything seems to fit nicely without much effort. so you tend to have alot more fun with this kind of song and it`s done in no time.
BUt when it`s not such a good song and no good energy flow , then you kind of struggle a bit to get it all to fit nicely and there is not such a good harmony with the sounds and ideas. so you work a bit longer to get the song to a releasible level, but it will forsure not be such a big hit.
anyway, again this will not be the same for everybody... |
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bandarlog
Bandarlog
Started Topics :
44
Posts :
809
Posted : Sep 27, 2005 00:04
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On 2005-09-25 03:16, shamantrixx wrote:
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On 2005-09-23 00:12, bandarlog wrote:
...But if you compare making psytrance with other genres, it is MUCH more timeconsuming... I produce a downbeat track that has (to me) the same quality as my psytrancetracks in a fraction of that time.
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this makes no sence!? I also produce downbeat and psytrance but I spend much more time with downbeat tracks. Due to lower tempo sound intervals are also longer and it's much more complicated to program the samplers and synths in order 2 sound interesting and dynamic. Tuning the reverb on a snare drum that runs 144 bps is a walk in the park comparing to same job with snare drum on 98 bpm etc. But that's just my point of view.
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Dunno, with psytrance it's much more difficult to not consume all your headroom. It has to sound full with lots of layers and all (in my point of view) which makes it much more tangible for 'messy' sound. With downtempo for example you can use and attenuate delays much better and clearer than with psytrance (where the delay often gets lost). Bass-control is another important issue. As I've seen what PA's can do to (unmastered) music and since psytrance is met to be played on big systems it's much more difficult to finetune those, whereas downtempo is often played at lower volume (with less problems). This doesn't mean downtempo should be mixed poorly. BTW: I'm by far not the only one noticing this difference in time consumption.
Another option is offcourse that downtempo is more my thing and that I should face the fact that I'm getting old and slow, even in bpm (and stop making those damned KBBBK's). 
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damage
damage
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
321
Posted : Sep 27, 2005 02:55
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On 2005-09-27 00:04, bandarlog wrote:
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On 2005-09-25 03:16, shamantrixx wrote:
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On 2005-09-23 00:12, bandarlog wrote:
...But if you compare making psytrance with other genres, it is MUCH more timeconsuming... I produce a downbeat track that has (to me) the same quality as my psytrancetracks in a fraction of that time.
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this makes no sence!? I also produce downbeat and psytrance but I spend much more time with downbeat tracks. Due to lower tempo sound intervals are also longer and it's much more complicated to program the samplers and synths in order 2 sound interesting and dynamic. Tuning the reverb on a snare drum that runs 144 bps is a walk in the park comparing to same job with snare drum on 98 bpm etc. But that's just my point of view.
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Dunno, with psytrance it's much more difficult to not consume all your headroom. It has to sound full with lots of layers and all (in my point of view) which makes it much more tangible for 'messy' sound. With downtempo for example you can use and attenuate delays much better and clearer than with psytrance (where the delay often gets lost). Bass-control is another important issue. As I've seen what PA's can do to (unmastered) music and since psytrance is met to be played on big systems it's much more difficult to finetune those, whereas downtempo is often played at lower volume (with less problems). This doesn't mean downtempo should be mixed poorly. BTW: I'm by far not the only one noticing this difference in time consumption.
Another option is offcourse that downtempo is more my thing and that I should face the fact that I'm getting old and slow, even in bpm (and stop making those damned KBBBK's).
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that`s why you godda keep bouncing down everything you do, so you can actually see the wavs and make it tight. this way you have full control over what happens in the production of the song. but only if you wanna do tight production like this. it`s not nesseseraly better to have such controled production in music. aspecially not stuff like ambient.
regarding time consumption. i think you should try to spend the same amount of time on any kind of music you are producing, but i haven`t really experimented with to many types of music, so can`t really say to much about this. personally, i would try to though. |
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UnderTow
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
1448
Posted : Sep 27, 2005 22:07
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vox
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
114
Posted : Sep 27, 2005 22:08
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On 2005-09-22 21:15, Dagas wrote:
hmmm...just wondering....
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somewhere between 4 hours and two months, depending on inspiration
 http://myspace.com/voxproject |
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vox
Started Topics :
2
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114
Posted : Sep 27, 2005 22:11
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that`s why you godda keep bouncing down everything you do, so you can actually see the wavs and make it tight. this way you have full control over what happens in the production of the song. but only if you wanna do tight production like this. it`s not nesseseraly better to have such controled production in music. aspecially not stuff like ambient.
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i would really like to know how can bouncing and visual presentation of your tracks help, apart from saving cpu headroom. you have full control of your song all the time, whether you can see the wav files or the midi data.
http://myspace.com/voxproject |
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Cardinals Cartel
Black Machine
Started Topics :
191
Posts :
3097
Posted : Sep 27, 2005 23:48
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Can be eny time .. 1 week 2 weeks 3
Its only the question of how much time u got on computer to produc .
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Sep 28, 2005 00:07
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Vox... what you cannot see in terms of midi data is how long a sound that has be run through a delay will echo.
If you convert it to audio, then you can see exactly how long the sound bounces around and use that in connection with where you want the delays to be at. I recently started experimenting with using predominatly audio and have found that you can do some really interesting things with audio that are incredibly difficult or virtually impossible with midi... what am I talking about? Try to take a midi sequence and use the tail of the sequence where the delays or reverb trail off after the sequence is finished. Reverse it, and place it right before the midi sequence happens... Can't do that with midi can you?? Now of course if you want to change the sound, if it's been converted to audio, you can't really change the sound of the audio file the way you could by going to the instrument and changing some parameters on it. So I beleive its good to use both and the best thing for me about using predominantly audio is the fact that I won't be spending days tweaking this one synth sound excessively. I write the midi part, get the synth sound where I want it, bounce / reimport it, and move on... And it saves a bundle on your cpu usage so you can concentrate on other things, like a long drawn out automation sequence that normally would choke your computer that has 8 vst instruments already loaded in with automation and a bunch of fxs on it...
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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sex stile
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
31
Posted : Sep 28, 2005 02:19
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On 2005-09-26 23:33, damage wrote:
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On 2005-09-26 20:35, sex stile wrote:
ummm...lets see one day a good friend of mine told me that good tracks take long time.....and bad tracks take little time....i agree with that but i think it depends on what skills you have and what ekipament...the time it is only a cause of that...eheh:)
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are you sure he/she didn`t tell you it`s the other way around?
i know of a few artists that agree (including myself) that a good track will usually take less time and the longer you work on it, the less hope there is of it being a dancefloor killer...reason being that when you do the good track, there is a very strong energy flow and everything seems to fit nicely without much effort. so you tend to have alot more fun with this kind of song and it`s done in no time.
BUt when it`s not such a good song and no good energy flow , then you kind of struggle a bit to get it all to fit nicely and there is not such a good harmony with the sounds and ideas. so you work a bit longer to get the song to a releasible level, but it will forsure not be such a big hit.
anyway, again this will not be the same for everybody...
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I say i agree with you on that ,but lets say that only the 1st step on making a killer track take less time....but depends on what is killer to you, and even depend on what track are we talking about.heh....so it is only a metter of time and a metter of lucky...., this friend i spoke before was Hypersonic, he told me that about his music,that took a long tome to do it,.....only that..
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Oct 1, 2005 12:57
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On 2005-09-27 00:04, bandarlog wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-09-25 03:16, shamantrixx wrote:
Quote:
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On 2005-09-23 00:12, bandarlog wrote:
...But if you compare making psytrance with other genres, it is MUCH more timeconsuming... I produce a downbeat track that has (to me) the same quality as my psytrancetracks in a fraction of that time.
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this makes no sence!? I also produce downbeat and psytrance but I spend much more time with downbeat tracks. Due to lower tempo sound intervals are also longer and it's much more complicated to program the samplers and synths in order 2 sound interesting and dynamic. Tuning the reverb on a snare drum that runs 144 bps is a walk in the park comparing to same job with snare drum on 98 bpm etc. But that's just my point of view.
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Dunno, with psytrance it's much more difficult to not consume all your headroom. It has to sound full with lots of layers and all (in my point of view) which makes it much more tangible for 'messy' sound. With downtempo for example you can use and attenuate delays much better and clearer than with psytrance (where the delay often gets lost). Bass-control is another important issue. As I've seen what PA's can do to (unmastered) music and since psytrance is met to be played on big systems it's much more difficult to finetune those, whereas downtempo is often played at lower volume (with less problems). This doesn't mean downtempo should be mixed poorly. BTW: I'm by far not the only one noticing this difference in time consumption.
Another option is offcourse that downtempo is more my thing and that I should face the fact that I'm getting old and slow, even in bpm (and stop making those damned KBBBK's).
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and again i have 2 argue this KBBBK psytrance is not so inovative as we like 2 think. As the matter of fact, there are only few ways 2 make a good and tight KBBBK groove with few rules you have 2 follow. And i see your point... i also have spent hundreads of hours infront of my monitoring system with nothing but kick and the bassline trying to sound like a machinegun from hell Downtempo tracks don't have this issue... and yes, it saves a LOT of time. But when i load ohmboys delay on a track that's 118 bpm i can spend even more hours on creating 4 or 5 presets with awsome predelayd LFO multi tap delays and few more hours on 4-5 presets for quad frohmage that will blend with previously made delays. Adding a reverb to elements that will have a "more than 5 sec tail" is also a challange if you don't want it to be obvious and boring. I remember reading the interview with Entheogenic some time ago. They spent 6 weeks just to mixdown ONE track from their first album after the sequencing was allready done. and I have a pretty good idea why they needed so much time
But we need 2 close this arrgument once So we can say that one can spend as much time as he wants to. In psytrance you can't avoid spending hours to tweak the groove and in downtempo you could avoid that but you have many ways and issues that can consume even more time. Any maybe i'm just a perfectionist and other downtempo producers finish their tracks in a week
oh btw: i also find producing downtempo waaaaay more interesting and creative than creating "oh no... not another KBBBK track"!
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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damage
damage
Started Topics :
15
Posts :
321
Posted : Oct 1, 2005 15:04
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On 2005-09-28 00:07, mubali wrote:
Vox... what you cannot see in terms of midi data is how long a sound that has be run through a delay will echo.
If you convert it to audio, then you can see exactly how long the sound bounces around and use that in connection with where you want the delays to be at. I recently started experimenting with using predominatly audio and have found that you can do some really interesting things with audio that are incredibly difficult or virtually impossible with midi... what am I talking about? Try to take a midi sequence and use the tail of the sequence where the delays or reverb trail off after the sequence is finished. Reverse it, and place it right before the midi sequence happens... Can't do that with midi can you?? Now of course if you want to change the sound, if it's been converted to audio, you can't really change the sound of the audio file the way you could by going to the instrument and changing some parameters on it. So I beleive its good to use both and the best thing for me about using predominantly audio is the fact that I won't be spending days tweaking this one synth sound excessively. I write the midi part, get the synth sound where I want it, bounce / reimport it, and move on... And it saves a bundle on your cpu usage so you can concentrate on other things, like a long drawn out automation sequence that normally would choke your computer that has 8 vst instruments already loaded in with automation and a bunch of fxs on it...
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yep, that`s it. also there is latency on some vst`s and softsynths. when you bounce down , you will see that alot of times there is unwanted latency that will only make your song sound sloppy. |
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Stranger_GR
Stranger
Started Topics :
8
Posts :
685
Posted : Oct 2, 2005 14:20
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Hi to all,
I agree with Damage and Mubali...
With Damage i agree that a killer track don't need the most of your time..just to be in the right mood and making it with passion because is KILLER!!!!!
Mubali speaks correctly about WAVES...there r things that are impossible to do in midi world!!(the midi protocol is a little old for nowadays...1980 i think......to make all your production through this...u can but is definatelly limiting your imagination..although some things have to taken care from midi level...like filtering!!
There is big difference to filter your sound with a filter plug in and filter it with VA(i have a virus!)..pitch shift also more fat when u program with midi..like sending a big note(8/1) to lfo to control osc pitch synced in 8/1 ...is more better sounding than do it in cubase..in my opinion!
Use the midi but don't stuck to it!!!
BTW it takes me from 3 days - 2 weeks to make a track..depends on the time and mood AVAILABLE!!!!
Coming Soon 07-12-2012 Strange Kaos split album "Above The World" from Goanmantra Records! www.goanmantra.com www.facebook.com/Stranger.Psy www.facebook.com/StrangeKaos
www.soundcloud.com/stefstranger www.soundcloud.com/strange-kaos
for bookin |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 2, 2005 15:53
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Before I used to think that it should take time to make proper psytrance and anyone who does a track in 1-2 days is just slack and is most likely doing boring music.
Of course back in the days of hardware setups it did take a bit more time to get things down right many times.
Now adays I would say average time spent on a track for me is about 7 hrs. The record for me is about 3 hrs and I don't find tracks I've done quickly less complex or interesting and definatly not less inspired.
Like Damage said, it tends to be the better tracks that is fast to make.
If you get a solid foundation that sounds great things can flow really fast.
Polishing and tweking every little detail tends to take away a lot of the original ispiration and make me bored with sounds I thought was fine when I created them.
So from my personal preference the faster I can work the better the result.
The key to working fast for me is arrangement tecnique. I can spend most of the time creating sounds and leads and don't rush with that bit.
When I have more than enough stuff to work with I start to arrange, but not checking part by part as I go.
I just make a few minutes at the time without listening back to it and then have a listen thru and tweak it a bit if needed.
Perfecting levels and compression/EQ I hardly bother with at all.
Thats a tecnique I learned from a successful mainstream producer. His advice was to just thow the faders roughly in place and never touch them again.
Perfectly balanced levels takes away the suprise element from the mix and make the listeners loose attention.
But I guess most people don't agree with that since most of the released psytrance nowadays is extremly polished.
I personally usually prefer the underground unreleased stuff because in my ears it sounds a lot more alive.
Actually even Madonna sound a lot more interesting and unpolished compared to 99% of released psytrance nowadays.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
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5380
Posted : Oct 2, 2005 16:46
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Oct 2, 2005 23:41
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On 2005-10-02 15:53, Spindrift wrote:
The key to working fast for me is arrangement tecnique. I can spend most of the time creating sounds and leads and don't rush with that bit.
When I have more than enough stuff to work with I start to arrange, but not checking part by part as I go.
I just make a few minutes at the time without listening back to it and then have a listen thru and tweak it a bit if needed.
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Is that making music though?
if you throw together some stuff you've made in an hour or two.. put it together and maybe change it slightly, have you created a track or just thrown one together.
Putting stuff together randomly has in my opinion nothing to do with inspiration.
It may be an extreme analogy, but do you think Mozart, Bach and more modern composers like Stravinsky etc. created a couple of riffs/motifs in an hour or two and then just put them together, tweaking them abit as they went along?
no... because they created music...
Fact is, if you're only concentrating on sounds and not the music or the production... you're only making a third of a track.
but then again, everyone has their own taste eh?
Peace
www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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