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how live is a live act?
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somarobotics
Somarobotics
Started Topics :
8
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190
Posted : Sep 8, 2007 00:05
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I used to play live with an MC505, two small samplers, a compressor and midiverb. When I learned Ableton Live I began sequencing this hardware via midi as scenes to make longer and more elaborated patterns and also open for improvisation. It's my way of playing live, but I know it's not really live as plugging a guitar and fucking shredding your hands... all I love about playing live is make improvisations, never having the same structure of the songs... it can be good or bad, this excitement is what I like...
I've been very dissapointed by some live acts in the psy scene, playing long tracks on waves (even having a powerful tool as Ableton Live at hand in the laptop!) and not even doing any sort of mixing between patterns or loops or adding sounds or effects...
But oh well... maybe it's part of our music style too... many djs have I seen play killer music but don't know how to beat match or EQ properly.
I'm not blaming anyone, everyone has the right to point themselves in the direction they want and boost their ego in the quantity/quality they need. |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
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5306
Posted : Sep 8, 2007 18:13
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Second thing is flexibility. If you look at the nature of this party thing you can clearly see that both live acts and DJ-s are hired to entertain the audience. Even thou many DJ-s and artists don't think about that in this way it is nevertheless the truth. Audience is paying them and they should entertain the audience. Without audience there would be no parties. Needless to say, DJ-s are way more adaptive since they can cover far wider spectrum of different musical ambients. They don't promote their music and if what they had in mind does not work they'll easily switch to something that works. Live acts don't have that option available.
Another thing is that audience does not care about how long did it take you to practice, listen or produce your music. They care about having fun. DJ-s are (or should be) masters of entertaining the dance floor while live acts are promoting their own music and they entertain the audience to the extent that audience likes their music. If they don't like it... live act is doomed to be boring and useless.
So if we try to compare them from the perspective of the audience than DJ-s have a much greater potential to entertain than live acts do. But I still think that such a comparison is not to be made since we're talking about different approaches to entertainment, music and audience all together.
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for original complete tracks , personly i have over 6 hours of music , from 136 bpm to 150bpm. dark , fullon , proggy vibe , suomi , and good old classic psytrance.
in the live i can control the tempo , how much sounds will be at once ,the sound types , if its going melodic or not , got all sort of bass loops ready.. can change it in exacly 2 hits on the midi keys.
so what u did is to compare bad live with good dj set. thats not fair like u said for yourself.
 www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 8, 2007 18:34
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and me is not the most great example
there are peaple like tommi that realesed 7 albums in very diffrent styles which all great for dancefloors (haltya,pelinpala,highpersonic women , headphonics) or timo (texas faggot mandalavandalz , flying scorpions , shiwa2000 , and more names i dont remember even) he realesed so much! and i saw him playing 8 hours original set , and it was much better then alot of 3X1.5 hours sets i heard.. from dj's or artists.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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Sound Surgeon
Crater / Mish-kah
Started Topics :
250
Posts :
2244
Posted : Sep 8, 2007 19:57
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Maybe the concept of LIVE in psytrance is wrong?
No such thing?
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 8, 2007 21:10
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i have no problem at all with producer playing his own music from cd's , i did it many times , always trying to find stupid names like Lively , Semi-Live (when i had synth along) , Producer set , whatever..
on the other hand mixing loops from endless bank on the fly and mixing it with known sounds from your realesed tracks , playing couple of leads on keyboard/guitar/accordion/whisle is more then ok for me to recognize it as 1 or 2 peaple live act (me or others) aspecialy when its producer with many styles and music , not someone that can barely scratch 1 hours of original things.. dancefloor realy not always react the same and *would* think its easier to change the atmosphere in live rather in ready tracks. www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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spinalpuppet
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
87
Posted : Sep 9, 2007 02:29
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On 2007-09-08 19:57, Sound Surgeon wrote:
Maybe the concept of LIVE in psytrance is wrong?
No such thing?
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I wouldn't go that far. I think the thing that is being missed here though is that "live" basically means you get to feel the physical presence of the artist who actually made the music.
Its kind of ironic that when you go to hear a concert of a non electronic musician, most people would consider them great live if they pull it off the same as on the album. For some reason we complain about this with psytrance. I wouldn't want to hear a guitar player live hit play on a cd, but to me computer music in general is interesting because of the things that can't be done live. Pre 90s academic electronic/computer musicians never bothered to play "live", the whole point was that it could not be done live. They would play "tape". Wendy Carlos is one of my all time fav electronic musicians, she did the clockwork orange soundtrack along with her solo stuff. She has never played live in 40 years. I imagine its because shes an insane purist who knows she can't do her music live so she doesnt and she is a classically trained pianist who could easily play parts over a backing track.
This whole discussion is nonsense. "Live" means what it does today in psy, it will mean the same 10 years from now. |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Sep 9, 2007 04:11
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On 2007-09-08 18:13, tsabeat wrote:
so what u did is to compare bad live with good dj set. thats not fair like u said for yourself. |
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I was comparing based on what I have seen so far. If you have all that you say you do... than I apologize. I can only write from what I've heard so far, so please don't hold it against me.
I'm looking forward to hear your live if there will be a chance for me to hear it.
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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spinalpuppet
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
87
Posted : Sep 9, 2007 06:57
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goodnight.
ive realized when max from etnica is just another dj for laughs playing trip tonight i realize this scene is nothing but a bunch of kids.
good luck
just for the record too, i hate israel, no reason i put you any higher than iran. i would fully support a US president who would have the balls to turn your bullshit country into a hole in the ground with nukes so you stop stealing my money.
That kind of free thought though, how dangerous, especially to the youth, it needs to be banned from a youth music board, even the mention of it. As if israelies can't possibly think for themselves, yet you don't even find that insulting.
For all the bullshit you international people hear, that is why i'm a proud american. fuck bush, like that statement matters if your an american. No one actually lives in fear here of going against the elected government, parties don't get smashed by the police here, who would have thought?
in the words of a great american, Edward R. Murrow who took a stand here in 50s when fascism got out of control "good luck, and goodnight". Obviously no one has the balls for that outside the US. go pretend to be "pyschedelic" and making "change", your just a bunch of pussies. |
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Jikkenteki
Jikkenteki
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
356
Posted : Sep 9, 2007 10:45
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 9, 2007 13:09
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hehe spinalpuppet its nothing about music now is it ?
and sure you know max from etnica is not israeli ... 
good to know there are open minded peaple in america like you who cant see diffrence between country that is (fake and money controlled more then any live , just like usa) democracy , to an terror organization controling the peaple with guns. wtf do you know about women rights or kids treatment in this places ??
not to mention if u realy wanna see the diffrence , come and see... u will enjoy some good parties here , and from iran u come back in a bag. if thats not enough diffrence to you.... then u smart like ass.
beside the money we get from u.s is just because usa have military bases in israel.. and to make u mad  www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Sep 9, 2007 18:08
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Well it's funny how more and more topics tend to take a strange angle without any obvious reason. That must be due to collective unconsciousness. Anything ignored for a long period of time will manifest it self externally as a fate. And is there a more appropriate place for mind manifestation than psychedelic forum? 
So even it looks totally unrelated (the outburst of spinalpuppet) I guess there is a pretty strong connection after all.
Anyway... when Douglas Adams first wrote his article about the impact that internet will have on humanity I was not convinced that it will be the case. Few years later I stumbled upon lectures from Terence McKenna who was kind enough to mention Marshal McLuhan. Than I found out that the idea of global electronic village was old as Elvis "The King" him self  During 1950's McLuhan foresaw the arrival of small home computers and global communications thus coining the phrase "global village" for the first time. Also, as a result of this "global village" he foresaw the revival of tribalism among younger generations. At that point I started to realize that whole psytrance culture was tribal as much as you can get tribal today. Look at the haircuts, tattoos, piercings, UV deco, the dance, the music, the gatherings...
Since than I don't believe that McLuhan and Adams ware right... I KNOW they ware. Sadly both of them died before they could see their "prophecies" being fulfilled.
By now you surely wonder what the fuck does this have to do with live acts or the outburst of spinalpuppet. Well it does. Live acts can decide is it or is it not OK to act or simply dance while the prearranged music is playing but it is the reaction of the auditorium that will set the rules... live acts will have to conform them in the end. In exactly the same manner governments can decide about their policy but it will be the reaction of the public that will set the rules that governments will have to obey in the end. So far things ware going in the opposite direction and one could easily ask why should they turn around now!? The answer is simple. We no longer have to take anyones word for anything. Informations are on the loose and widely available. No secret can withstand exposure and no propaganda can erase the new, electronic collective unconsciousness of humanity that we call World Wide Web.
So tsabeat has his point of view about Iran but other people have their own. Like this fellow from a BBC:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=554201962695917482*+9*
other people have different point of view about US military bases in middle east. For instance:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4258131083758254736
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1259454859593416473
Now I don't claim any of those to be the utter truth but as long as I don't hear any better explanations I have every reason to take them as possibly true stories.
Years ago I would have to trust one or the other. Now I can investigate and hear both sides of the story directly from the "dragons mouth". The unfolding of McLuhan's prophecy is inevitable. The world IS going to change drastically and it's changing fast. How will we act makes little difference now... the ages of acting and manipulating are over. We are the ones we've been waiting for, this is a great time to be alive 
So hold back your horses spinalpuppet. Anger leads to violence and violence is not a way to get to peace. In fact Ghandi said something worth repeting:
!There is no path to peace, peace is the path!"
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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cosm
Cosm
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
63
Posted : Sep 9, 2007 18:49
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Alias
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
32
Posts :
984
Posted : Sep 10, 2007 00:49
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On 2007-09-09 06:57, spinalpuppet wrote:
goodnight.
ive realized when max from etnica is just another dj for laughs playing trip tonight i realize this scene is nothing but a bunch of kids.
good luck
just for the record too, i hate israel, no reason i put you any higher than iran. i would fully support a US president who would have the balls to turn your bullshit country into a hole in the ground with nukes so you stop stealing my money.
That kind of free thought though, how dangerous, especially to the youth, it needs to be banned from a youth music board, even the mention of it. As if israelies can't possibly think for themselves, yet you don't even find that insulting.
For all the bullshit you international people hear, that is why i'm a proud american. fuck bush, like that statement matters if your an american. No one actually lives in fear here of going against the elected government, parties don't get smashed by the police here, who would have thought?
in the words of a great american, Edward R. Murrow who took a stand here in 50s when fascism got out of control "good luck, and goodnight". Obviously no one has the balls for that outside the US. go pretend to be "pyschedelic" and making "change", your just a bunch of pussies.
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WTF?
if you hate israel and want to destroy this lovely country......you should leave this forum and
find another place to spread your antisemitic propaganda!
www.myspace.com/aliasix |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Sep 10, 2007 06:14
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all fair in love and war
and isratrance
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*shaman i watched 25 minutes of the video and i keep my mind , trust your eyes.
watch carefully the first link about iran, i didnt thought its all be just camels and tents , but as u can see , no women hair is shown because of religious opression , even if they do it at home they wont dare do it outside...
no law about the taxi drive fair.. no street lights.. and its not $$ problem , guns they have planty.
peaple killing peaple to change the street name to their own lol
think if the repoter was white and not speak arabic he still get this nice treatment?
maybe the peaple are lovely individuals , but as country they suck .
i realy got liked that dude who is all about music and peace , there is some light , tho he cant have sex and rebelion in his lyrics.
but none the less their official peace and justice is to kill me and you.
peaple happy for their freinds to die in the war against western culture.
i just finished reading a book called "reading lolita in teheran" told from former iran resident (women) who formed illeagal reading club while was living there , come on! reading books for womens is illeagal there! (in israel the only law on bookd - its not allowd to sell hitlers book)
freedom ? next time
about this saddam twisted view of the reporter i can tell u i saw personly the damge he sent on missles here back in 93 , not mass distruction weapon , but he sent it on my house and alot of this forum members. im sure they remember this clearly. lucky he never hit something realy major.
i hope they will have more freedom soon
end of politics , there is more then enough places for this , just had to say what i think of this.
im here for equipment and music creation tips anywayz.. and we missed the point
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about the live , im still just on the build of the new act , can keep it hour+ now without being too loopy , also involve some realesed sounds to keep the real fans happy.. and to give me 2-3 minutes rest and time for beer once in a while
so for now i make lively , producer set , dj set , not to mention i prepare the show in studio computer and saving for soundcard so i can travel with it as well.
i have made some 1/2 live so far with friend soundcard , actualy rather to play cd's then mixed set. even if i have the filter sweeps or some synth to add on top... no dought the real live is heaps more intresting then all but damm it takes alot of preparation and practice and bounces.. and some equipment.. i can see why some peaple choose the easy way. and like colin said , whats wrong with producer not making live? nothing as long no one lie about this.
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Sep 10, 2007 10:53
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spinalpuppet, WTF??? you alright, man?? a little too much sugar in your Fruity Pebbles, one too many Jolt's??
c'mon, man - Max's dance is funny no matter what way you slice it... is he some kind of god or dictator that we have to suppress it and pretend to be all serious and shit?? doesn't matter if it were Mick Jagger, Perry Farrell, Sven Rath or anyone acting silly on stage is worth a laugh, and that having entertainment value, can be considered part of the live (still on topic here?)
if we can't laugh, than yeah the negative energy is going to lead to anger... sounds like you just need to loosen up a bit.. breath deeply, relax, take a nice deep bong hit, and listen to something groovy
remember we're all trying to evolve here, and the better way is the positive way, as opposed to eating and killing eachother
btw, I'm a proud american, too G'dammint (whatever that means..) actually I'd like to think of myself more as a citizen of Earth, but anyway..
is this a youth music board??
peace,
D
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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