| Author
|
How do you write your songs?
|
icodon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
120
Posted : Jul 12, 2006 21:53
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-07-12 10:12, br0d wrote:
Good thread. It's so much fun to sit there and noodle with kicks and basslines that they can often keep you from focusing on other things. The thing is, good pop music (and it's ALL pop music, don't kid yourself) is based around hooks. How much of a hook is kbbb? To anyone who has already heard the format extensively, it is NOT a hook at all, it's about as much of a hook as watching a drummer play a neat backbeat.
All of this music started out experimentally, people decided they were bored with the status quo and started noodling with things...sometimes noodling extensively, radically altering the accepted norms.
The second you get over the nagging belief that you're gonna somehow kbbb your way to international stardom (even though every other kid in his bedroom is doing the same simplistic thing, and if you don't believe me click around myspace a bit) is the second you align yourselves with the original creators of this music and their ethic, and the moment you become a true force. As proven in dance pop, you can "trance up" just about any old dumb song, so the trance is not the issue here, the fusion of trance with other stuff IS. Focus on the other stuff.
I would rather hear a really inventive track with some chords and weirdness going on, that features a kinda poorly implemented trance beat, than listen to something made by some super engineer who has figured out how to cause a saw wave to sound a little bit deeper and meaner without actually introducing any new ideas or hooks into his piece. 
|
|
It sounds interesting... But I did not get everything you wrote. What does hook means? Are you against KBBB? Are you saying "please, try something different, do not start your track with KBBB…"
Sorry my misunderstanding. Your language still being a challenge for me.
  ...Groove´n´dooR... |
|
|
|
Caqueira
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
21
Posted : Jul 12, 2006 23:48
|
when I get stuck I use math. how? here's how:
first make a synth loop that repeats itself every 1 bar, than make another one with 2 bars, and so on until you get a bunch of them.
then split their main frequency and put each one in a different freq, pan, volume, any control you may have.
then put each one in a different reverb or delay.
this way you'll create "layers" of sounds and at the same time you'll have some good groove.
it's all about being creative.
cheers! |
|
|
|
:smoke2:
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
150
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 12:51
|
|
cool topic .. i often have the same problem .. my way of comming aroudn it is to just keep writing the song in a nice flow .. dont let the technical aspects bog u down .. got a beat in mind ? just keep layin it down .. eq , levels , automations .. mixdown .. basically polishing can come later .. if u do get stuck tho .. try opening another previous incomplete project and tweaking it a bit more .. write a cool synth patch .. dont stay in the same place wen ur stuck .. ! |
|
|
|
fregle
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
982
Posted : Jul 13, 2006 14:24
|
|
the 'hook' of a song is the part that everybody remembers best (not taking the text into account). If u ask someone who isn't working with music (a normal listener) to sing a song for u, he will automatically sing the text or the hook. We would call it the lead melody... |
|
|
|
ethios4
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
22
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 20:25
|
I find it helpful to compose the same way a painter paints....you don't start a painting by spending a day on the nose, then moving out from there....you start by drawing in the overall outline of the painting and then fill in the details.
If I just start with a cool part and try to grow the track out from there, I never get it finished. But if I create the general structure of the track first and then fill in the details, I can easily create a finished track. |
|
|
|
Djones
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
267
Posts :
1766
Posted : Jul 14, 2006 20:48
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-07-14 20:25, ethios4 wrote:
I find it helpful to compose the same way a painter paints....you don't start a painting by spending a day on the nose, then moving out from there....you start by drawing in the overall outline of the painting and then fill in the details.
If I just start with a cool part and try to grow the track out from there, I never get it finished. But if I create the general structure of the track first and then fill in the details, I can easily create a finished track.
|
|
Could you explain a little more how you create this basic structure?
I'd be very interested in actually building a structure, because right now I don't get any further than creating some pattern(s). |
|
|
|
ethios4
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
22
Posted : Jul 15, 2006 07:24
|
It helps alot to analyze the structure of tracks that you like. Basically just listen and take notes on how many measures each section is, and how many measures each pattern is.
For instance, you might find that a track has a basic pattern of
32m Intro
96m Section A
32m Breakdown
96m Section B
32m Outro
Looking closer at Section A you might see that its made of 3 32-measure sections that are themselves made of 4 8-measure sections. It's easy to hear where the sections are because there are cues in the music that make it apparent....double-kick every 8, crash every 32, etc...
That's just an example structure, but by analyzing several tracks in this way, your mind gets a feel for how structures work. Structures are built much the same way throughout a genre; what makes each track unique is the way the energy flows through the structure, and the soundscape that energy manifests through....
Once you develop some ideas about how structures are built, you can start taking those patterns you've made and use them to fill in the spaces in your theoretical structrures. Maybe pick 2 complementary patterns and have them for the Section A and Section B. Now create an intro for Section A, and figure out a breakdown that will allow you to seque into Section B. If you want to be clever you could figure out a way to have the Section B music flow back into the Section A music for the Outro.
Now that you have the basic A/B/A structure, you can work on each of the sub-structures in 32-measure/8-measure chunks, all the way down to single measure structures or smaller.
Composing in this way (by studying pre-existing structures) is very useful, but it runs the danger of creating formulaic, generic music. The solution is to take what is learned from studying pre-existing structures, and discover your own language of structures...just as you would create your own language of riffs and patches. You could also look to novel sources for structures, like the flow of text on this thread, for example...
For me, I find that I have at most 2 days to get an idea out before it moves on. If I can get an overall structure down in a day or two, I stand a good chance of completing the track. If I spend all 2 days just getting the patches set, or getting a drum part right...I just end up with a pattern.
Personally, I like working in Ableton Live because it excels at capturing spontaneous ideas and patterns. I can come up with an 8-track jam session, record all the movements, and basically create spontaneous structures in realtime....now that's easy composition! It's also very easy to turn a pattern into an arrangement in Ableton Live.
Does that help?
ps. Colin's screenshot is helpful as well;)
http://www.psypix.net/pix/albums/userpics/10088/Scramble---SX-screenshot.jpg |
|
|
|
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jul 17, 2006 04:05
|
ethios4 - Great advice....
i feel so stupid, cause i never learn from my mistakes...
tuning stuff that dont have its full context....
thanks for the advice...
|
|
|
|
Djones
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
267
Posts :
1766
Posted : Jul 17, 2006 14:31
|
Wow, great advice you just gave!
That was exactly what I needed, because I always feel very insecure about my music, about not knowing how long all those parts should be!
Thanks! |
|
|
|
psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
841
Posted : Jul 19, 2006 09:52
|
Great information about the structure of a song. For me it becomes something that I forget about when I'm lost in the creation. I guess that it's good to step back from your song and think "okay I have all these parts, now I should start placing them along a line that makes up the song"
Especially the part where you get an idea that the song has 2 major sections and a break down intro and outro. That really helps me to get an idea on how to lay out some of the things I already have.
It seems like I don't know when I have enough parts to start making a song out of them. I'll end up changing alot of things hoping that something comes to me on where to go with it. I guess just jumping forward or backwards in the song would help alot.
I'm going to try alot of these tips, thanks for all the information, this is a great thread. |
|
|
|
ethios4
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
22
Posted : Jul 19, 2006 19:00
|
I know it helps me a lot to be able to jump around in a track....if the structure is already there, it's easy to move on to a different part of the arrangement and keep the creative flow going.
Another thing that's great about working with structures this way is that you can build and develop themes easily. For instance, you could have a very recognizable melody, riff, or drum fill towards the beginning, and then work it back in later in a different part of the track to remind people and bring the track full circle.
It seems worth mentioning again at this point that the structure outlined above is merely a starting point, and there are many different structures to analyze and make use of... |
|
|
|
psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
841
Posted : Jul 20, 2006 02:54
|
thats a very good point. This way you have defined parts to work on. You can say okay I should work on those 8 bars right before the break down.
I suppose if you have a nice part going you could just lay it out over lets say for example
part A right after the intro all the way up till the break down.
Then maybe split up section A into 3 parts, and make a progressing variation of the part you placed on all 3 parts so that way you have a nice changing part that doesn't get stagnant.
Thinking like this really helps. I guess it also gives you a more "visual" overview so that it's not just some idea in your head, you can actually "see" the song layed out in front of you with it's little breaks and parts. That way you get a nice overview of the whole thing.
This is something I've really needed to talk about. I can make some really awesome sounds, melodies, rhythms, basslines, drums, etc... I just have troubles getting them all the way to the song format. I have so many amazing incomplete tracks. This should help, once again thanx for the great topic.
|
|
|
|
fregle
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
11
Posts :
982
Posted : Jul 20, 2006 14:48
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-07-20 02:54, psylevation wrote:
This is something I've really needed to talk about. I can make some really awesome sounds, melodies, rhythms, basslines, drums, etc... I just have troubles getting them all the way to the song format. I have so many amazing incomplete tracks. This should help, once again thanx for the great topic.
|
|
It's nice to see that there are other people who have exactly the same problem as me gives me hope... But i think that there are a lot of people like us... Making good sounds and decent half-songs but never a complete song that's worth listening to |
|
|
|
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Jul 20, 2006 14:56
|
|
i think that s why so many act are not alone,i find it a lot faster , and easyer to work at 2 or 3, you rarely get stuck with arrangment and there is always someone better to do something than the other.alone i need 1 month for a track and only 2/3 days with friends. |
|
|
|
psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
841
Posted : Aug 16, 2006 10:30
|
this is a great thread = bump  |
|
|
|
