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How do you determine the quality of plug-ins? =)
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
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1132
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 11:28:25
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Ok, that is so-so clear for me with synths, but i'm talking about dynamics plug-ins and EQ mainly.
I've finished a track yesterday and tried to master it using different limiters - Sony Oxford Limiter, Crysonic Spectraphy, Voxengo Elephant and Waves L2. I tried to tune them similar, to achive the same output volume. For sure, they sound different, each one has it's own colour, but I think they are just different, not one better than other. There result was ok with all of them (by the way, the L2 I liked less then others).
The same with EQ. I mostly use Voxengo GlissEQ for all tasks, (I remove unneeded frequencies mostly), and sometimes URS BLT EQ for boosting hi-hats. But I think every EQ can do the job, depending of the source material, if you know how it works and how it sounds...
Just thoughts:)
  http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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like_tripin
Started Topics :
3
Posts :
122
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 14:16
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Same thing with reverb's! i think it's your own sound taste only question to choose (this or that) plugins...
weEjoOnz |
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
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411
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 19:10
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By having the best monitoring chain/acoustic treatment you can afford, so you can actually "hear" their quality.
A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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Dharma Lab
Started Topics :
8
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342
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 20:33
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The Steinberg Internal Mixing gave a good tip on the quality of a reverb plugin. He explained it really comes down to the low audio levels, that are often masked but picked up unconsciously, that make a good reverb. This requires a good calculation depth in the plugin coding.
His basic tests suggested 2 things:
1) A good reverb on it's own send channel at low levels should stand up in a complete mix. You should not have to drive the reverb return high to convey the spatial information.
2) Test a drum loop with very very subtle reverb added (like ambience, or small room type presets) on a send, & listen to it in a complete mix, turning the reverb on & off. A good reverb does not need to be consciously audible, but you should miss it when it's turned off, sounding like the spatiality collapsed.
As a side note: The steinberg internal mixing dvd's are, IMHO, the best tutorial videos every made. I took about 15 pages of notes from the 2 DVD's, while other videos maybe gave me 4 - 6 tips that were good/new.
Keep The Faith,
Christian K. |
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Medea
Aedem/Medea
Started Topics :
127
Posts :
1132
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 20:56
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Reevrb is another thing.
The quality of reverb could be measured, comparing to "natural" sound behaviour in different spaces. It's very important for live recordings, at least.
http://soundcloud.com/aedem |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 21:51
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
411
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 22:19
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-24 21:51, vegetal wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-04-24 19:10, Alex Roudos wrote:
By having the best monitoring chain/acoustic treatment you can afford, so you can actually "hear" their quality.
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Thats very subjective
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And very objective at the same time.
Before i upgrade to my current monitoring system a lot of stuff were sounding really good. And it was a very descent monitoring system.
Now half of that stuff at least don't sound that good, so they had to be changed and ignored/unistalled.
A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 22:42
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-24 22:19, Alex Roudos wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-04-24 21:51, vegetal wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-04-24 19:10, Alex Roudos wrote:
By having the best monitoring chain/acoustic treatment you can afford, so you can actually "hear" their quality.
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Thats very subjective
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And very objective at the same time.
Before i upgrade to my current monitoring system a lot of stuff were sounding really good. And it was a very descent monitoring system.
Now half of that stuff at least don't sound that good, so they had to be changed and ignored/unistalled.
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all that im saying is that one plugin might not sound good with one element in a track but you put it on some other element it might be the "best" sounding thing ever, see where im going here 
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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Alex Roudos
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
411
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 23:06
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[/quote]
all that im saying is that one plugin might not sound good with one element in a track but you put it on some other element it might be the "best" sounding thing ever, see where im going here
[/quote]
I see and i agree and i think we both agree that this "certain" plugin must be of at least some descent quality to have its place in our arsenal, even for very specific needs/combinations. But still we need to be able to hear what and how it does it in the best possible way in order to evaluate it correctly.
Do we have a deal? 
A friend told me once that the biggest mistake we make is that we believe we live, when in reality we are sleeping in the waiting room of life. |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 23:20
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-24 23:06, Alex Roudos wrote:
all that im saying is that one plugin might not sound good with one element in a track but you put it on some other element it might be the "best" sounding thing ever, see where im going here
I see and i agree and i think we both agree that this "certain" plugin must be of at least some descent quality to have its place in our arsenal, even for very specific needs/combinations. But still we need to be able to hear what and how it does it in the best possible way in order to evaluate it correctly.
Do we have a deal?
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Deal =)
Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Apr 24, 2008 23:48
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Apr 25, 2008 11:18
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Quote:
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On 2008-04-24 11:28:25, Medea wrote:
Ok, that is so-so clear for me with synths, but i'm talking about dynamics plug-ins and EQ mainly.
I've finished a track yesterday and tried to master it using different limiters - Sony Oxford Limiter, Crysonic Spectraphy, Voxengo Elephant and Waves L2. I tried to tune them similar, to achive the same output volume. For sure, they sound different, each one has it's own colour, but I think they are just different, not one better than other. There result was ok with all of them (by the way, the L2 I liked less then others).
The same with EQ. I mostly use Voxengo GlissEQ for all tasks, (I remove unneeded frequencies mostly), and sometimes URS BLT EQ for boosting hi-hats. But I think every EQ can do the job, depending of the source material, if you know how it works and how it sounds...
Just thoughts:)
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Hm, i have quite the opposite experience: in my ears, the Sonnox limiter is by far the best of the ones you mentioned, and it has this nice enhancement section that can really open up the sound With eq's it's also pretty obvious. If you compare a Sonnox or a Cambridge eq to the ones that come with Cubase or to the Waves stuff for instance they are much more transparent. They just do what you ask of them and they do it in a musical fashion, without blurring the sound too much. With reverbs it's even more obvious, just compare an Altiverb to a Rverb for example.
It does help to use different high quality eq's, comps and (send-)reverbs on different groups though, because the characters of the processors will glue the sounds in a group together and this gives each group a distinct, coherent sound in your mix.
I agree with Alex that you need proper monitoring and acoustics to be able to hear the differences. Problem is that if you use multiple crappy plugins and tweak them just a little bit imprecisely because you can't hear what you are doing, the imprecisions will add up in your mix and the mix will become blurry.
I also agree with Dharma Lab about the Steinberg Internal Mixing DVD's: they're awesome. I've read several books on mixing and mastering, but these DVD's gave me loads of new insights and tips. Also check their Audio Mastering DVD's, these are also very useful. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 19:31
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for limiters very carreful a/b is the way to go, like 2 bars one limiter next 2 bars a other one and you make a loop and you match the volume then you tweak them to the best they can give without too much artifacts. you have to know what to hear like distortion ,transient ,pump ...(for example with the l2 it kill transients with not a lot of gain reduction and it distort easy when set fast it make it useless for psytrance) for eq except for hipass filter lot of eqs are good,it s more about to find one with the interface that suit your workflow with the plug than the best one. |
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