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How do you "clean up" the bass?
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 16, 2010 20:22:37
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Since KBBB at +145bmp can happen really rapidly i have the theory that not all frequencies should be there... not like in other genres where the sound has more time/space to resonate.
Today I can manage to get a nice kick n bass combo but most of the times i don't get them as tight as i want.
I usually don't use much on my bass, just a sidechain comp, some eq to cut under 30hz and balance some. Sometimes distortion or bass enhacers too.
I have been talking to some friends about this, some say i should notch ringing / humming frequencies and i have tried but i find a little hard to take away those freqs without affecting the meat of the bass.
how much do you do it because i find that notching more than 6db makes the "hole" very audible... also how to approach on Q values and is this all really necessary? any other methods to clean the bass signal?
thanks |
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Ascension
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 16, 2010 20:46
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 16, 2010 21:05
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I've been cleaning my bass by having my kick EQ'd correctly so the frequency's match.
I used to do so much aggressive EQ getting my bass to match my kick, but the end result would indeed sound very tidy, but was lacking balls.
Bass needs balls! Big ones! |
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sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 16, 2010 21:09
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I'm pretty bad when it comes to eqing but I find that this chart helps...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequencies
find the key of your bassline and search for it on the chart. try to eq out this specific freq. try a q of 12 and reduce the gain a bit. this should notch out the fundamental and lets you fit in a kick with less masking.
the other way is to forget this completely, take out a good eq and add some gain on a narrow q. sweep through and try to find the boomy part, aswell as the ringing part. now reduce the gain and it might improve something. it's hard at first, but with practice you'll get better. there's still a danger that you do it wrong, because of your room, the speakers or your ears (that time of the day) 
I use fabfilters q eq with a graphical representation of the signal feeding it. try to visualize your spectrum before and after an eq. now don't believe only your eyes. close the plug/eyes and a/b the results. note down your settings and do it by ear. do you get the same result again? do this the other way around (eq with ears, look at the graphics. with some days/weeks into it... you might get lucky
so in conclusion:
-a/b is your friend
-use your ears and train them
-check out where the fundamental freq is. where's the second harmonic?
-try colins sidechain method (gates) or split the bassline in two parts. higher part, lower part. eq them both so they won't clash. use sidechain only on lower freqs.
-not only eq the bassline, eq the kick so it fills up spaces you cut into the bassline. give the kick more presence on the 2000-7000 hz area. sweep, as these numbers mean nothing.
-keep your basslength and kickdrum short. calculate the length of a beat in your projects tempo.
http://web.forret.com/tools/bpm_tempo.asp
export your bassline and kick, each solo and aswell mixed. Drag it in your daw, zoom in. make it tight. eq each note if necessary.
route aswell the filter to your envelope. often you don't need to eq that drastically with a bit of movement.
ächtz, hope that's helpful
 soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
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Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 16, 2010 21:43
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You do need to notch out ringing harmonics. Not much - but you need to broaden out your Q most likely, as if is too tight, it introduces more ringing.
A better approach I find these days is subtle and broad notches (like maybe one or two, tops, and one or two narrow notches, tops) in the 200 - 500hz area. Smile EQ with a couple of notches for the really problematic freqs, basically.
Bit of sidechain compression, and speeds well in excess of 150bpm are perfectly achievable to make sound 'clean'
Pay very close attention to where you HP. 'Below 30hz' simply does not cut it, IMO. Between 20 and 40hz is a whole octave. So between 20 and 30hz is half an octave - this is a really big area of sound to just arbitraily cut below 30hz! Maybe it is difficult to hear in isolation, but you will be able to hear the difference to the mix, or with decent cans on, you'll hear a lot of difference too. Beyond that, what sort of slope is the HP using, how steep is it in an anlyzer (ie is it actually doing what the fancy graphics tell you its doing).
It may seem odd to bang on about HP filters when you were asking about notches - but IMO, these have the biggest impact on your sound.
Also, try LPing the sound after the distortion stage somewhere around the 10Khz mark - correct point can vary massively.
You can also try playing with sidechained bass expansion - not too many of those around though.
My other big hints:
Use broad shelves to help you match the spectrum of the kicks uppers to the spectrum of the basses uppers.
Don't be afraid of kick drums which are much longer than 1/16th. Some of my more recent efforts are much nearer 1/4 of a bar by the time the sub is finally fading out.
All EQ freqs, gains, and Qs are obviously massively situationally variable. The bottom line is - practice, practice, practice, which may seem a bit glib, but it is also, the truest thing I can tell you - no shortcuts to getting the experience needed to make the right EQ decision for a given sound! .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 16, 2010 22:03
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Many thanks for your kind answers guys... i'll check on this asap.
Just for the record...
- I usually eq before sidechaining, i still use it because it do like the pumping effect.
- As for HP i have been testing different settings, mostly ones in UAD cambridge eq, from very mild to super steep ones, i have found 12db curve HP at 30-40hz to help the most, i will pay special attention to this after speakafreaka comment.
- I do use frequency charts to adjust this.
A couple of questions for sidefxed:
"try colins sidechain method (gates) or split the bassline in two parts. higher part, lower part. eq them both so they won't clash. use sidechain only on lower freqs. "
Can you point me to this info?
"not only eq the bassline, eq the kick so it fills up spaces you cut into the bassline."
Do you boost kick's frequencies to achieve this?
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 16, 2010 22:04
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you should upload a sample so we can hear and give you some advice |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 16, 2010 22:04
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sure, as soon as i get home i'll upload. thanks |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 17, 2010 01:34
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there are some psycho acoustic tricks i think when equing , hiding the bad sounding freqs by something so our brain don t notice them , see when using one band of eq how easy it is to make the bassline sound worst cause the freqs you just removed where hiding lot of craps that now you can hear easily, the trick is to get the brain to concentrate only on what sound good. a example would be a killer sounding beat with drums that sound just ok on their own or even sounding bad in solo but the whole thing sound great.(that example is not very good but even a clean sound can have some bad resonances but our brain just don t notice them cause of something else from the same sound or a other one so it make it clean) |
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Psydust
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 17, 2010 06:07
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another way is to solo the kick and identify "meaty" areas, and cut those in the bass to create a "kick pocket"
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supergroover
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 17, 2010 10:51
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What are you using for bass? I recently went from software (sylenth & albino) to my much beloved virus TI. And that made a huge difference in bass fatness. Some hardware might be all you need to make the last little step to the bassline you really want.
soundcloud.com/supergroover |
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sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 17, 2010 11:58
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I tried to use the search and google to find colins tutorial. But the search sucks, so I'm sorry. Maybe he can tune in and give you the link.
for the second question, sometimes I apply a boost on the kick, sometimes I cut higher frequency parts of the bassline... it depends on the occasion. I sometimes apply a narrow boost at around 100 hz, that really helps the kick. a wide mild boost on the kicks high frequency content might allow the kick to come through better.
It's all so subjective and hard to explain, because I do it by feeling and I'm not always 100% convinced of my abilities
what I do is leave the room, listen to the kick/bass combo from the kitchen. Note myself if the kick does come through, can I hear the bassline properly, is the bassline in tune (because notches can change the pitch of the bassline quite drastically)
then I move around in front of the speakers and listen to these adjustments I did from the experience in the kitchen. If all turns out well, I leave it at that.
soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
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psycox
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 17, 2010 13:09
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Quote:
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On 2010-03-17 11:58, sideFXed wrote:
I tried to use the search and google to find colins tutorial. But the search sucks, so I'm sorry. Maybe he can tune in and give you the link.
for the second question, sometimes I apply a boost on the kick, sometimes I cut higher frequency parts of the bassline... it depends on the occasion. I sometimes apply a narrow boost at around 100 hz, that really helps the kick. a wide mild boost on the kicks high frequency content might allow the kick to come through better.
It's all so subjective and hard to explain, because I do it by feeling and I'm not always 100% convinced of my abilities
what I do is leave the room, listen to the kick/bass combo from the kitchen. Note myself if the kick does come through, can I hear the bassline properly, is the bassline in tune (because notches can change the pitch of the bassline quite drastically)
then I move around in front of the speakers and listen to these adjustments I did from the experience in the kitchen. If all turns out well, I leave it at that.
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think i found it:
http://forum.isratrance.com/killing-only-low-frequencies-with-sidechaining/
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sideFXed
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Mar 17, 2010 17:01
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yep, that's it, thanks and regards to abu
soundcloud.com/epsylohm |
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aciduss
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Mar 17, 2010 18:21
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Hey guys thanks for the comments.
Here is my example... i have not changed anything since i post this, i mean i haven't had the time but i will. In the meantime you can listen to my over equed attempt.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/4ijcjoonemw/BAZTEST.wav
And well i don't have money for hardware right now... im sure a virus could sound much better but i just have soft synths to work with (cronox2 mainly). I am not after a super FAT bass but rather a clean one.
As Pom said:
Quote:
| see when using one band of eq how easy it is to make the bassline sound worst cause the freqs you just removed where hiding lot of craps that now you can hear easily" |
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That is what consuming my mind right now... i know i don't have the perfect acoustical settings but there must be a way to balance that eq.
Again many thanks. |
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