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How do we integrate ideals with reality?
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mez
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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163
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 03:53:25
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Rather than hi-jack the North American festival thread, I thought I would start another topic to discuss an issue I am concerned with.
I am calling for a questioning of the so-called psychedelic culture when its biggest gatherings cost hundreds of dollars (Burningman, Boom) and are only available to the elite e.i. resource consuming travel and accommodations.
Many very creative and innovative people with a lot to offer are left out or feel turned off by certain "capitalistic" aspects of the larger outdoor parties.
This is in noway intended to point a finger at anybody, we live in a capitalistic society (perhaps you could say more socialistic or fascist with the recent economic stimulus plan), so there are certain things we must accept. And I understand orgs mostly have good intentions and charge what they have to. What I am getting at I guess is the difference between revolutionary cultural movements and irrelevant sub-cultures is the inclusiveness they offer to open minded people. For instance, Psychedelic culture in the 60's was perhaps more impacting because it was cheap. No more haircuts, communal living and acoustic music (cheap paper too)... Now a days many psychedelic people have ostracized their ethos by making it another mall sub-culture, expensive shows, expensive music and expensive lifestyles.
Gemini is free and seems to be one of the great festivals we have lately
Rainbow is free, never been, heard it's a drag.
Does anybody know about an anti-burningman
Probably not the best thing to talk about on an open forum but pm me.
SO anyway... If anybody feels me on this, or has opinions I would love to hear about it. We can always improve ya know.
peace
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hardkornate
IsraTrance Junior Member
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376
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 05:26
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Nothing is really free.
Someone is paying the bills at those free events.
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Gui"AUM"etriX
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
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73
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 16:45
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do the "traveler" thing!!!!
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mubali
Mubali
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71
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2219
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 17:56
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as nice as it may be to have free events, people cannot continually devote their own time and resources all the time. Like it or not, the way this world works is that we all have a finite amount of resources. Whether it is time, or finances, or equipment, all of these have costs and value.
As an artist, I am not opposed to performing for free occasionally. However as a human being that requires food, shelter, etc... I can't continually do free events. There's plenty of free events featuring local talent and whatnot, however if you expect to see many artists and high quality ones too, then you will need to pay for that.
 An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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FattyAcid
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
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531
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 19:05
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I quote the Baba of trance...
"It's all in how you look at it......thats the tricky part....but thats the trick"
....not much referring to resources, or lack there of......or maybe it is
Wake walking through your sleep dream
Esoteric Generation (Arkansas)/Beatnik Production(AR)/ Three Way Mirrors (West Coast) |
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damon
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 23, 2009 19:09
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Mez: try to throw a week-long festival for 50k people for free then complain ok?
Plus NO ONE forces you to PAY and GO to those events ... free will my friend ... free will ...
http://www.chillumafia.com |
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FattyAcid
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
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531
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 20:06
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cant edit, but i'll just requote,as my quote was mis-said
"It's all in how you look at it....thats the tricky part....but thats the secret"
Wake walking through your sleep dream
Esoteric Generation (Arkansas)/Beatnik Production(AR)/ Three Way Mirrors (West Coast) |
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famiable
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
201
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 20:50
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Very true..
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On 2009-02-23 05:26, hardkornate wrote:
Nothing is really free.
Someone is paying the bills at those free events.
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
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1848
Posted : Feb 23, 2009 21:23
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I'm not trying to be an ass when I say this but it needs to be said... and reiterated as what I am about to do regarding the posts made by my peers. When you pay out a couple hundred in currency to go to a party, it is especially true in the psy-scene that nobody is lining their pockets from your ticket. Artists are busting ass and giving up chunks of their life to stay up until 6 AM when they have to work the next day to keep fueling our scene with music. Promoters are busting ass with things like insurance, logistics, and too many other things just to make sure that people have a reasonable access to things like water and portapotties. Having been on both sides of the coin, 99% of the time, the average ticket purchaser has it easier than anyone in that all they have to do is pay the ticket price, show up, have a good time, and (hopefully) clean up their mess -- this last one is something that psy "hippies" are NOTORIOUSLY bad at, despite their rhetoric. Your role carries absolutely no responsibility. You show up, pay, have a good time, and go back to your lives. In my opinion, most of us should be paying these ticket prices (VERY modest in comparison to the alternative events out there) and thanking the handful of people who risk and give up so much just to make these events happen.
How do we integrate ideals with reality? Tough to answer, yet in a way not really. Ideals seldom incorporate reality into their making. Ideally we would all like to have everything for free.... free land to party on, all artists playing for free because things like food and shelter and gear being no worries to them, people renting out their sound gear for free, people printing flyers for free, and even people cleaning up your messes and emptying your poo out of portapotties for free (and many other examples).
Like what was said above, though, this is absolutely not the case. All of these things cost money. It is only fair for every contributor to hope that some of their losses are recouped. There is so much risk involved and all it takes is for one dumbass who can't handle their shit (you know what I mean) to ruin it forever for that region/event. Even in the successful parties like Boom, there is always something that can go wrong which can ruin an event and cost lots of money (in a best case scenario). And you know what? If someone makes a little extra money from your ticket sales, good for them. They deserve it. Chances are that most of these people will be using their profit to throwing the next party, or buying another piece of music gear anyway. Even the Boom or Universo Parallelo promoters aren't paying off their yachts with these events.
So, back to your question, the best answer I can give you if you want to be more active in making your ideals into reality is to CONTRIBUTE... find a way to help out,and don't wait to be asked. Make friends with your local promoting group and make yourself available to contribute. When you are walking around a party event with a trash bag, picking up others' trash, people WILL take notice. People will get up from their party positions and start helping you out. And they will smile and feel good about doing so because seeing your effort imparts that into them.
I know PLENTY of people who: Are on the crews for planning events, pay full ticket prices, and donate logistics out of their own pockets and smile about it because they realize how much really does go into these functions. Most of them enjoy it so much that they feel bad when they DON'T have this opportunity. And it shows. They do this year after year and it makes a huge impact that people notice and comment on. Those same people who are out there doing this stuff, though, aren't the ones who are in here having these discussions over and over and over. These people work for what they want and don't start discussions relating to how others can give them more of their way.
It's a simple formula:
Ideas + Effort = Reality Change.
That's magic. Pure and simple.
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jds
Started Topics :
8
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384
Posted : Feb 24, 2009 20:16
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I understand what you're trying to say here but you're looking at the wrong thing. I think you answered your own question when you said "biggest gatherings". Biggest always equates to most above ground, most resource intensive, and usually most commercial, etc. There are plenty of gatherings everywhere that don't cost hundreds of dollars. Biggest doesn't equate to best or in any way most truely aligned to any ideal. It's an apples to oranges comparison and the event's you mentioned shouldn't be held on any pedestal as some sort of example of the pinnacle of psychedelic culture. |
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light-o-matic
IsraTrance Junior Member
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13
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176
Posted : Feb 24, 2009 21:46
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What are your ideals mez?
I don't think "party for free" is an ideal. Do you have anything deeper than that?
Or, if you think "party for free" is an ideal, then explain to me what is ideal about it?
Every party has some costs, and if you don't pay that means someone else had to pay your share. That doesn't seem ideal to me. But maybe you can explain it better...
Thanks
-Ben aka Hypnotoad (light-o-matic / PSI)
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AumShantiAum
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
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911
Posted : Feb 24, 2009 21:47
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yah I understand that the biggest events cost tens of thousands of dollars, but the smaller ones cant be sooo expensive. I really like the concept of Gemini, and even down here in Southern California there are occasionally parties at minimum cost or whatever donation you can make, fuck im sure if you show up there with no money in the middle of the desert or something they probably are not gonna turn you away!The original idea with Goa parties was to make them free or minimal cost so everyone would have access just like the psychedelic scene in the 60s. But I suppose in today's world, except for a few places, this concept cannot really exist. Too much fuckin money involved in everything!! is it true that you have to cover a psychedelic festival with insurance???! wtf.
Anywayz thats why I think small parties are the best, low costs, minimum people, best time.
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damon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
88
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2122
Posted : Feb 25, 2009 00:10
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-24 21:47, ohmshantiohm wrote:
yah I understand that the biggest events cost tens of thousands of dollars, but the smaller ones cant be sooo expensive. I really like the concept of Gemini, and even down here in Southern California there are occasionally parties at minimum cost or whatever donation you can make, fuck im sure if you show up there with no money in the middle of the desert or something they probably are not gonna turn you away!The original idea with Goa parties was to make them free or minimal cost so everyone would have access just like the psychedelic scene in the 60s. But I suppose in today's world, except for a few places, this concept cannot really exist. Too much fuckin money involved in everything!! is it true that you have to cover a psychedelic festival with insurance???! wtf.
Anywayz thats why I think small parties are the best, low costs, minimum people, best time.
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Dude! Revoke the old spirit - start throwing free/low cost parties for others!
http://www.chillumafia.com |
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Gui"AUM"etriX
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
73
Posted : Feb 25, 2009 00:32
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As we should all have known by now, there is many realities, some are closer to our deep nature, some closer to what we have made of the existing "social system" (the one that's falling apart in front of our own eyes right now).In 20 years, I've seen the true nature of what used to be a "party" being corrupted by being "democratized". That doesn't mean the original energy is lost, it's still there, but under a huge layer of "noise". it's just up to you to go back and find the root. How? By quitting the one reality for an other. By quitting one social system for an other. By embracing a reality where actions and creations have meaning, substance, not just forms.
What does it mean in relation to "parties"?
From immemorial times, a party was something to celebrate a journey done by a group of people, a journey that was full of danger and hard labor...A journey that not everyone might be able to make till the end....
Could it be, like in the past, for the land owners to give back to the people how worked the land for them, or nowadays for the "travelers" to get together and celebrate, somewhere in India or South East Asia, after spending the season selling their merchandise on the flee markets of the Western World, their joy to be back, free, under a better sky.
A party is the product of a group that had share an experience and put their resources together to celebrate it.
A party is never free, but the price of a party is more than numbers on a piece of paper called money, the price of a real party is measured in the difficulty to get to it, the Journey, with all the ups and downs, before it.
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AumShantiAum
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
911
Posted : Feb 25, 2009 01:37
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Quote:
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On 2009-02-25 00:10, damon wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-02-24 21:47, ohmshantiohm wrote:
yah I understand that the biggest events cost tens of thousands of dollars, but the smaller ones cant be sooo expensive. I really like the concept of Gemini, and even down here in Southern California there are occasionally parties at minimum cost or whatever donation you can make, fuck im sure if you show up there with no money in the middle of the desert or something they probably are not gonna turn you away!The original idea with Goa parties was to make them free or minimal cost so everyone would have access just like the psychedelic scene in the 60s. But I suppose in today's world, except for a few places, this concept cannot really exist. Too much fuckin money involved in everything!! is it true that you have to cover a psychedelic festival with insurance???! wtf.
Anywayz thats why I think small parties are the best, low costs, minimum people, best time.
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Dude! Revoke the old spirit - start throwing free/low cost parties for others!
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Dude! Im so down, why dont you provide the venue, generator, sound equipment, ill bring Chai, Water and im sure I can find 4/5 people to dj for free. this is gonna be so great i cant wait!
dont you hate it when people act like smartasses? 
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