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Homophobia in the Psy scene
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 19:15
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On 2005-11-15 19:00, Nathan wrote:
in Genegal it's not natural if organisms behaviour doesn't lead to reproduction. What is wrong?
ants fucking the mage ant. thats natural 4 tham.
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Again you're failing to answer the whole argument. Also did you read the article? Should maybe paste it here?
Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. So go the lyrics penned by U.S. songwriter Cole Porter.
Porter, who first hit it big in the 1920s, wouldn't risk parading his homosexuality in public. In his day "the birds and the bees" generally meant only one thing—sex between a male and female.
But, actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.
Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now. They display classic pair-bonding behavior—entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have sex, while ignoring potential female mates.
Wild birds exhibit similar behavior. There are male ostriches that only court their own gender, and pairs of male flamingos that mate, build nests, and even raise foster chicks.
Filmmakers recently went in search of homosexual wild animals as part of a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer documentary about the female's role in the mating game. (The film, Girl Power, will be screened in the U.S this Saturday at 8 p.m. ET, 5 p.m PT on MSNBC TV.)
The team caught female Japanese macaques engaged in intimate acts which, if observed in humans, would be in the X-rated category.
"The homosexual behavior that goes on is completely baffling and intriguing," says National Geographic Ultimate Explorer correspondent, Mireya Mayor. "You would have thought females that want to be mated, especially over their fertile period, would be seeking out males."
Well, perhaps, in a roundabout way, they are seeking males, suggests primatologist Amy Parish.
She argues that female macaques may enhance their social position through homosexual intimacy which in turn influences breeding success. Parish says, "Taking something that's nonreproductive, like mounting another female—if it leads to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource or a good alliance partner, that could directly impact your reproductive success."
On the other hand, they could just be enjoying themselves, suggests Paul Vasey, animal behavior professor at the University of Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada. "They're engaging in the behavior because it's gratifying sexually or it's sexually pleasurable," he says. "They just like it. It doesn't have any sort of adaptive payoff."
Matthew Grober, biology professor at Georgia State University, agrees, saying, "If [sex] wasn't fun, we wouldn't have any kids around. So I think that maybe Japanese macaques have taken the fun aspect of sex and really run with it."
The bonobo, an African ape closely related to humans, has an even bigger sexual appetite. Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual. Frans de Waal, author of Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, calls the species a "make love, not war" primate. He believes bonobos use sex to resolve conflicts between individuals.
Other animals appear to go through a homosexual phase before they become fully mature. For instance, male dolphin calves often form temporary sexual partnerships, which scientists believe help to establish lifelong bonds. Such sexual behavior has been documented only relatively recently. Zoologists have been accused of skirting round the subject for fear of stepping into a political minefield.
"There was a lot of hiding of what was going on, I think, because people were maybe afraid that they would get into trouble by talking about it," notes de Waal. Whether it's a good idea or not, it's hard not make comparisons between humans and other animals, especially primates. The fact that homosexuality does, after all, exist in the natural world is bound to be used against people who insist such behavior is unnatural.
In the U.S., in particular, the moral debate over this issue rages on. Many on the religious right regard homosexuality as a sin. And only this month, President Bush vowed to continue his bid to ban gay marriages after the Senate blocked the proposal.
Already, cases of animal homosexuality have been cited in successful court cases brought against states like Texas, where gay sex was, until recently, illegal.
Yet scientists say we should be wary of referring to animals when considering what's acceptable in human society. For instance, infanticide, as practiced by lions and many other animals, isn't something people, gay or straight, generally approve of in humans.
Human Homosexuality
So how far can we go in using animals to help us understand human homosexuality? Robin Dunbar is a professor of evolutionary psychology at the University of Liverpool, England. "The bottom line is that anything that happens in other primates, and particularly other apes, is likely to have strong evolutionary continuity with what happens in humans," he said.
Dunbar says the bonobo's use of homosexual activity for social bonding is a possible example, adding, "One of the main arguments for human homosexual behavior is that it helps bond male groups together, particularly where a group of individuals are dependent on each other, as they might be in hunting or warfare."
For instance, the Spartans, in ancient Greece, encouraged homosexuality among their elite troops. "They had the not unreasonable belief that individuals would stick by and make all efforts to rescue other individuals if they had a lover relationship," Dunbar added.
Another suggestion is that homosexuality is a developmental phase people go through. He said, "This is similar to the argument of play in young animals to get their brain and muscles to work effectively and together. Off the back of this, there's the possibility you can get individuals locked into this phase for the rest of their lives as a result of the social environment they grow up in."
But he adds that homosexuality doesn't necessarily have to have a function. It could be a spin-off or by-product of something else and in itself carries no evolutionary weight."
He cites sexual gratification, which encourages procreation, as an example. "An organism is designed to maximize its motivational systems," he adds.
In other words, if the urge to have sex is strong enough it may spill over into nonreproductive sex, as suggested by the actions of the bonobos and macaques. However, as Dunbar admits, there's a long way to go before the causes of homosexuality in humans are fully understood.
He said, "Nobody's really investigated this issue thoroughly, because it's so politically sensitive. It's fair to say all possibilities are still open."   "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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TRapp
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
271
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 19:15
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Right....
can i butt in here and just for the record say...... SO THE FUCK WHAT!!
you know this whole topic is boring...because its the same stuff again and again
the opressed MINORITY rages out....
lets start at the beginning...this topic was started out of people who are gay not appreciating the use of derogatory terms and what not against gays.
then a story was told how your gay friend was killed.
right....
your story is bad and that shouldnt ha[ppen to anyone....But...WHAT HAS IT GOT TO DO WITH PSY TRANCE????
did psy trance partiers kill any gays?? beat them up?? verbally abuse them and tell them to fuck off out of the scene??
the answer is ...NO
i am sorry about your friend, like i am sorry for the thousands of black african people killed weekly, like the granny across the road who got murdered, the babies who get raped, the children who get abused.....
the wives and girlfriends who get beaten...lets not marginalize , what do you think??
so with all that being said,...what exactly is your point???
so the fuck what if i say gay, fag, ass fucker....you can call me straight, hetro, pussy fucker.....
the thing is this.....if you truly believe in your sexuality , none of those words should offend you and you should be proud to be called an ass fucker, just like i am proud to be a pussy fucker....you should be proud to have your boyfriend suck you off, just like i am proud to have my girlfriend suck me off.....
so why are you offened????? whats wrong?? it should be water of a ducks back if you truly believed in it.....
but instead we now have this large raging debate over nothing really....
get a grip and wake up, not only gays are special, everyone is special....if you are proud to be who you are and you know inside yourself who you are .....then nothing should offend you....
smile and take the light side of it all...
me and my friends who are all straight call each other gay and whatever....just like we would call each other fucktards, and goatsuckers......i mean what about the poor goats....do you think that they are pissed off that i make so many goat jokes about them????
there are more important things to worry about....
peace and love children...
I dont do the drugs....I AM the drugs |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 19:19
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I totally agree on the finding words offencive part and already expressed that too.
I just entered the debate because of some ugly people. Arsims of isratrance or something..
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Nathan
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
301
Posts :
3605
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 19:28
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errrr...I am out of this topic. Gay sex is not normal from my p.o.v I do not care what ppl say. Animals have sex to solve conflicts? Crazy baboons....
-=The Meaning Of Life Is To Give Life A Meaning= |
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Cinos
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
58
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 19:40
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On 2005-11-15 19:28, Nathan wrote:
errrr...I am out of this topic. Gay sex is not normal from my p.o.v I do not care what ppl say. Animals have sex to solve conflicts? Crazy baboons....
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Couldn't you just try to come up with a decent explanation? You have no reason to think that way, yet you do - even if you've gotten several arguments on the other point of view.
Besides, humans have sex to solve conflicts too. Make up sex, you know. |
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Mistress of Evil
Mistress Of Evil Records
Started Topics :
101
Posts :
961
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 20:30
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Not to drag this on any more- but the whole point of the topic was not a debate on homosexuality but a request to not use the word "gay" and other similar terms to describe things negatively in this forum. So whether you agree with homosexuality or not- please respect the users of this forum and the rules of this forum by not using these words in a disrespectful or derogatory way.
thank you.
Bringing Dreams to Life!
www.encantadaproductions.com |
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Willy Wonka
Inactive User
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13
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574
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 20:46
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Gay sex isn't normal, eventhou human are bi-sexual, we miss the thing! Logic. You make sex with an opposite sex and baby coming, if you make sex with same sex the only thing can come up is white poo.
It doesn't mean you need to use therm gay and link it to something which is wrong, since gay doesn't mean the things you link it too. Gay is homosexual, homosexual are different, some are male, some female, some singers and some K1 fighters. So do not create an other group and moreover don't link it with some wrong definition.
"there once was a lesbian from Cancun
who took a young man up to her room
where there argued all night as to who had the right
to do what, how much and to whom" |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 20:57
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On 2005-11-15 19:28, Nathan wrote:
errrr...I am out of this topic. Gay sex is not normal from my p.o.v I do not care what ppl say. Animals have sex to solve conflicts? Crazy baboons....
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How does it feel to be close minded?
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Oran
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
1362
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 20:58
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o.k guys and...guys? i guess its better late than never...
please read the the 1st post of this topic again:
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On 2005-11-14 17:06, Pax wrote:
Okay, I just want to sound off on something I've been seeing here in this forum that is really troublesome to me, so pardon my tone.
I've seen alot of people using "gay" or "fag " or "faggot" in derogatory terms.
As a straight ally and someone with more than a few Gay/Bi friends, some of whom are very involved in the psytrance community, I am really angry that people choose to bring such hatred into something that is supposed to be about community, respect, friendship and a sense of transcending mundane bullshit.
Before you say "it's just a word"-one of my best friends was beaten to death by members of his fraternity because they thought he was a "faggot" who was going to "come on" to them, despite the fact that he was'nt out or overt about his sexuality and it only became an issue after one of his frat brothers went and outed him to the two men who beat him. He was found in a ditch near the campus where he had presumably strayed off, and he died, according to the coroner's report, of a brain injury sustained in the beating.
I don't care what your politics are, but please don't bring this into the psy scene.
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if you have anything to add on the topic please do so...if not please use goggle to find some gay forum and post there...
i wont delete any post from now on but i will just offtopic until arafela will wake up(and trust me u dont want to wake her up "this days" if you know what i mean).
discuss....
Always agressive never progressive. |
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Ron Lyner
Ron Lyner
Offtopic posts:
3
Posted: Nov 15, 2005
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On 2005-11-15 16:35, KakoOlalaJwal wrote:
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On 2005-11-14 22:52, Ron Lyner wrote:
dont be mad.. read carefuly and try to understand what im saying
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Yes yes yes you were trying to fall on your feet after your first post.. but I can do nothing but writing that you're a poor guy, Ron..
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yes i am poor.. not enough money
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On 2005-11-15 14:34, Ron Lyner wrote:
lets see what you do if your son will be gay and he will be like 16 years old and you'll hear him fuckin with other boys in hiss room while you hear it: "oh ohhh yes fuck my ass harder", in your own home |
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I'd think "cool, he's having good time.." exactly as if he were with a girl..
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yeah right... first let it happen to you than we'll see
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On 2005-11-15 14:34, Ron Lyner wrote:
second:
lets see what you do if a gay person come and try to kiss you and trying to do his thing with you (and this is when he knows you are not gay)
it happens! |
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So what ?? A kiss doesn't kill, boy, and I have kissed gays and hetero boys, in public !! Wanna spank me ?
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i dont wanna spank you but its not so ok with me
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And about the :
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On 2005-11-15 14:34, Ron Lyner wrote:
and trying to do his thing with you (and this is when he knows you are not gay)
it happens!
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Explain him it's not your thing.. He'll stop.. Gays are far less dumb (heavy) than boys chatting up girls..
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i dont wanna explain these things he should not do it without asking me if im gay or not
NOT EVERYONE IS GAY YOU KNOW ???
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On 2005-11-15 14:59, Ron Lyner wrote:
howcome it didnt happend 100 years ago???
gays were always walked the earth its not somehing new but, howcome we now have so much of them when in the past they were only a few ? |
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Sorry but.. Are you really that stupid Ron ?? It has always existed but 100 years ago and more you were getting killed for being known as a gay (and we could read here that it still happens today, sadly) so they were indeed doing what you're claiming here : hiding !!!
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are you stupid yourself???? i didnt say no gays 100 years ago i said no BI-SEXUALs 100 years ago
and now.. why you dont see so many lesbians but gay men you see alot ????
maybe the lesbians doesnt care about their attention so much ?????
http://www.o-zen.com/art/ranal
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You wanna dance?!...I know a tune...it´s called stick and CUT!!
V.L |
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Ron Lyner
Ron Lyner
Offtopic posts:
3
Posted: Nov 15, 2005
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about what one of you said
according to what you say its ok to fuck animals too
lets call all the animals fuckers to fuck them in public..
is it ok ????
now that was my last writing in this thread
too much here i cant read it all http://www.o-zen.com/art/ranal
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You wanna dance?!...I know a tune...it´s called stick and CUT!!
V.L |
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Nathan
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
301
Posts :
3605
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 21:18
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plz lets go back to Trance...
i have had enough.
-=The Meaning Of Life Is To Give Life A Meaning= |
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headyatail2000
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
2304
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 21:28
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^^ i skipped pages 2-14..!!!
hmmm so many replies,,so many hits..!! 
i guess..ppl. dun actually mean it!
but yeh , if u do u happen 2 know ppl. frm GL community..u mite actually show some respect to them!
fair nuff ?
<~< "the best things in life aren't things" - art buchwald >~> |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Nov 15, 2005 21:40
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You know humans (as in homo sapiens) have been around for around 150 000 years. One would think it's about time we start accepting each other. So much hate and disrespect going on. All the anti-gay people should really give this a thought. What is more important, your code of ethics and morals or the well being of others? Who the hell are you to tell someone else how to live their lifes as long as they aren't hurting anyone?
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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