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Higher PPQ = More Audio quality ???
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
Started Topics :
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1214
Posted : Aug 19, 2004 21:39
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hey guys ,
i was messing around with the timebase ppq settings in fl studio and changed it frm 96 to 768 ... and suddenly everything got really detailed and sound was also much better !
i know logic works in 960 ppq ...
so wat i want to know is tht does working in higher ppq timebase , result in better sound quality in the resultant audio , which is converted frm the orginal midi trks ??
hope u ppl got me !
plur ... boom !
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTPJuMSwzUQ |
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orange
Fat Data
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154
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3918
Posted : Aug 19, 2004 23:55
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Sektor666
Inactive User
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439
Posted : Aug 20, 2004 00:10
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PPQ is accuracy of event proccesing
it means that the automation quality depends on PPQ quantity ...... PPQ it is just more dots in automation .......... nothing to do with other quality ....
good luck |
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orange
Fat Data
Started Topics :
154
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3918
Posted : Aug 20, 2004 00:52
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Sektor666
Inactive User
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439
Posted : Aug 20, 2004 11:29
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Still we not in Camelot times when Merlin used magic and all was perfect |
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WAVELOGIX
Wavelogix
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136
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1214
Posted : Aug 20, 2004 11:47
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i know abt it ... but thts it ???
bah ... |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
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663
Posted : Aug 20, 2004 16:29
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yeah,
sector is right.,
it's the precision of events in the sequencer.,
it means parts per quarter-note.,
so it's the ammout of steps the sequencer goes through in each quarter note.,
mind you, logic has a 960ppq resolution for 'normal' events.,
the automation data (controlling plug-ins, mixer, etc) is sample accurate!., 
greets.,
aka.,
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posts :
355
Posted : Aug 21, 2004 19:36
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You know the cubase ppq default is 480 (120 ticks per 16th note) and my daw I have it set to a 4000ppq. I just cranked it up because the machine can probably handle it, but really, the reports of the importance of high ppqn values are probably exaggerated. Think about it--480 events per *16th note*? What are we trying to do there? I doubt 480 events are going to create audible stepping or "zipper noise" or anything. |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
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663
Posted : Aug 21, 2004 20:08
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hmm., 480ppq right?.,
but a quarternote is the length between kicks
4 * 16th in a beat
2 * 8th in a beat
1 * 4th in a beat.,
so you have about 480 * 2.3 = 1104 events per second
that's about as fast as MIDI.,
this should be perfectly hearable under some circumstances.,.,
just not very likely to happen with midi-type data since it's only 7 bits wide.,
but on 16 bits automation it could become important.,
greets.,
aka.,
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br0d
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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355
Posted : Aug 21, 2004 22:18
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Great point. I still don't think it's audible.  |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
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663
Posted : Aug 23, 2004 13:14
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hehe.,
greets.,
aka
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Sektor666
Inactive User
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439
Posted : Aug 23, 2004 15:33
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now Zildoggo i want to ask you someshit /...
from technical point of view higher ppq make automation proccess more accurate but from musical hearing point of view do it make sense to work on high ppq , do we hear this difference ? |
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
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663
Posted : Aug 23, 2004 15:54
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"from technical point of view higher ppq make automation proccess more accurate but from musical hearing point of view do it make sense to work on high ppq , do we hear this difference ?"
that realy depends on what you are doing.,
if you have 10 things playing at the same time you wont hear it., your brain will be too busy.,
but if you have a solo instrument or something then it can matter..,
also, it realy depends on what you controll/automate,.
the range of all parameters in all synths is different so the steps have a different meaning.,
so it depends on everything.,
and if you can hear it doesnt mean it sounds bad!.
i know that i never realy am bothered by this sort of stuff in dance music.,
and if the ppq is realy high then you can use it as a sound source this gives some nice options., you can do AM stuff with your sequencer
so you can use it creatively as well,.,
and also, a lot of synths interpolate their parameters internaly so they smooth them out anyway (because of the poor midi time and data resolution).,
these filters are usually tuned to midi rates so it's not always usefull to have a higher ppq.,
but for controlling internal stuff of your sequencer it can make sense.,
so, as usual, it depends on what you want to achieve and what you have to work with.,
greets.,
aka.,
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Psycho Mushroom Lolipop
Inactive User
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Posted : Aug 23, 2004 17:34
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i've not checked the math but 1104 events per second is too much to be usefull... yes you can use it if you pc can take it but:
1) it's not garanteed to be timely acurate (pcs suck at timekeeping)
2) you can send information too fast for you synths (hard and soft) to receive and some stuff might get lost/jammed...
3) am stuff can be done with a fewer resolution
some use midi as a sound source (the crap sound chopping stuff for instance: swithcing volume on and off... anyone tryed pitch with that? well... go for the lfo but usually at lower rates...
sending lots of cc's/sysex might jam older midi equipment
internaly might be used but not be that usefull... however i cannot condemn anyone for trying
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ZilDoggo
Started Topics :
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Posts :
663
Posted : Aug 23, 2004 18:25
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"1) it's not garanteed to be timely acurate (pcs suck at timekeeping) "
if you talk about automating audio then everything is synced to the audio so the cpu doesnt have to keep time at all for this.,
the automation is projeced over the actual samples..,
and samples are absolute.,
and decent midi interfaces can sync to the audio as well., no need for the pc to be that acurate, it sends it's data to the audiocard and midi interface beforehand and doesnt have to worry about syncing to them.,
"2) you can send information too fast for you synths (hard and soft) to receive and some stuff might get lost/jammed... "
this can be true in some cases but i saw these problems mostly with bad/cheap midi interfaces., usually of the soundblaster/gameport type., these midi interfaces are not designed to midi specifications and will produce 'stuck' or hanging notes.,
in other words their buffers get too full and they drop new information.,
but anyway, 1104 bits of information is already more than the midi specification i think so for midi it's totaly useless to have a higher ppq.,
most modern hardware synths should be able to cope with a full midi buss.,of course the event processing engine is the first thing most synth manufacturers cut into when producing entry-level equipment.,
anyone remember the MC-303 controller fiasco?
"3) am stuff can be done with a fewer resolution "
yes, but modulating at higher freqs than 552 hz or with smoother waveforms than a squarewave can be nice
"sending lots of cc's/sysex might jam older midi equipment "
very true..,
very true.,
"internaly might be used but not be that usefull... however i cannot condemn anyone for trying "
hehe.
anyway.,
i'm not saying your music will suddenly sound like never before.,
but high ppq has it's uses.,
maybe not so much in synthetic quantised totaly processed weird psycho trance
but with subtle audio material it can make a difference.,
and anyway, timing directly translates to 'feel' or 'groove' so if you're a good player you can hear the difference.,,.
i definitely appreciate the fact that i can move a track forward or backward by a fraction of a milisecond., it can change the whole feel of how things relate to each other.,
greets.,
aka., |
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